i also think this is the case, and it would be nice for a change which lowers her value on things like Havana but gives her more value generally on all other maps. Because her power budget is too one-sided.
Nah, it’s more like it own personal fantasy football, with a bit of debate club, and political manoeuvring thrown in.
More Influence than “Influencer”.
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I mean if they allow map tools in workshop community would have fixed it in 10 ways by now.
But let’s continue adding cartons for cover and nerfing heroes instead.
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What if widow had limited shots per load, couldn’t easily reload if her clip isn’t completely empty, but could store a shot to have an instant charged shot the next time she fires? I don’t even know if I like that for widow, but I like that idea for a sniper.
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I will say this is atleast my biggest gripe with the game that their idea of “map cover” is pitiful to put it lenient and half of Overwatch’s problem is their constant desire to narrow the power spectrum because they didn’t want the power ceiling to be too high and now they are suffering from it being too narrow.
Tricky.
I think of Hanzo when I’m trying to think of what Widow could theoretically change, because Hanzo is way more viable at mid-ranges with enough mobility to move around so he can be viable at both close and mid ranges. Yet his bow charge can also be accurate enough to snipe. Technically Hanzo can fire shots quickly as suppressing fire and do non-fatal damage to scare enemies into cover or move back or whatever else. Because getting people below half health is very dangerous. Yet, even though he can do this, can still oneshot.
Meanwhile, Widow’s main issue is that if she can’t oneshot, she isn’t useful enough. As well with your change idea, she can’t WASTE her shots unless she is really sure it’s a headshot. If her ability to shoot is too restricted, she just isn’t putting enough threat in to the enemy team to be considered a threat and would most likely stay the same level of threat high elo while being way worse low elo. And bad Widows already are notorious for hardlocking the character only to do 300 damage the whole match.
Am I making sense on what I’m trying to say?
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I’d prefer dispersion to sway, and the game has ample crosshair tools to show that properly which is good. Either one could work and achieve similar results. Dispersion is fairly platform agnostic; I think sway tends to be asymmetrically worse on controllers than on mice.
But if we start low enough (I think we really should start at zero and only move away if necessary) and if it climbs quickly enough, this isn’t a necessarily bad idea. It does however punish Widow most in skill tiers where she’s already less of a problem.
It helps address people concerned about Widow slaughtering teams; it doesn’t address people who are very fixated more on that first successful shot and how one-shots interact with their individual gameplay, rather than the team fight as a whole.
Along similar lines though, the similar concept of giving Widow dispersion if she’s moving while ADS increases her vulnerability. It’s less direct in managing multi-kill concerns, but I think both of these concepts are reasonable things to consider in the list of possible adjustments.
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THIS HAS BEEN WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR THANK YOU
I am not the most knowledgeable when it comes to technical terms. I only describe what I visually witness. I really like this whole explanation here and what you’ve presented.
As far as the first shot issue, I think that’s perfectly fine over what we have now. Due to widow aim being static and still, they can hug sightlines with no issues and predict someone walking out for a kill at angles. A change like this dramatically lowers chances once the team knows there is a Widow and where they are at.
More importantly, this mostly will greatly affect High Elo Widow as low elo Widows will just be scoring bodyshots like always.
Ah, one more thing. If there is a concern of aim problems when talking between mouse/keyboard and controllers, we already know there can be individual adjustments considering console players and controller players get access to aim assist and I can’t see why Widow players on console couldn’t get reasonable special adjustments to offset what changes they do.
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Happy to help. Technical terminology can be difficult, vary between disciplines or groups even describing the same thing, and there’s no reason to expect most people to know it and remember it even if they’ve ever been exposed to it properly.
Heck, Bungie literally decided to use the word “bloom” to describe this kind of scaling dispersion, which has always bugged me because the word is already a bit overloaded with contextual meanings, particularly particle bloom in graphics.
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Yeah, this pairing of dispersion effects might be a fine way to address a lot of the complaints, and sort of doesn’t seem like it should have a worse worst-case than slowing Widow down.
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Cause he fires one arrow by the time you fire three times with Cass or torb
True.
I was just saying that unlike Widow, people like Soujorn or Hanzo or Ashe have effective ranges that comparably are pretty equal. They are versatile unlike Widow who HAS to play at a given range.
Not saying it shouldn’t be this way, but if a small adjustment makes her hardscope aim more difficult and thus can give room adjustment to say her submachine fire in close range, I think most people would be all for it you know? Plus, if it’s “too much” than reducing how much it is in the same way if it is too little.
I have my own beef about Cass as a character and Torb… well he be Torbin’.
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I failed to quote you in that my b lollolololololol
Bro have you seen all the new push maps? You’re walking dead in the center of the open wilderness to be hunted.
And those changes to Junkertown by adding more cover is an absolute joke. You’re still walking in the open.
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Realistically, as somebody who plays Widow, I think there are two ways that she should be nerfed: Minimum falloff distance reduced so she’s not as oppressive on long-range maps like Junkertown and Havana, and if she’s still too strong after that, increase the time between charged shots. Anything else would be overkill or would place her solidly in F tier. And this is only AFTER we buff her counters (flankers should’ve never been nerfed) and the overall sustain is reduced slightly so it’s harder for teammates to deny legitimately good flanks.
Personally, I would like to see her number of eliminations on average in higher elos compared to other DPS picks. I haven’t seen anyone else mention this.
Damage per 10 minutes can’t apply because it doesn’t apply the same to her; a good Widow doesn’t pepper shots or give suppression as their damage is meant to secure a kill and pretty sure they can secure the same level of kills as other heroes with less DPS.
Personally I have found all pushmaps to have good cover and flank routes.
Junkertown adding cover was a complete joke though it’s like they don’t even try
I’ll remind you that flankers were nerfed for the same reason snipers should have been changed. Their counters were dramatically reduced since stuns got scaled back, and everyone who said stuns don’t really counter flankers quickly changed their tunes when they were scaled back, so that should tell everyone something.
You can’t buff flankers if their counters have been greatly reduced. However, I think there should be more stuns in the game. If there were just a bit more heroes with stuns or some other ways to counter mobility, then flankers COULD get a buff.
Not needed, one shots shouldn’t exist. The April fools experimental was fine. No need for her to heal.
There’s a lot of stats it would be really helpful to look at in detail. Overbuff’s reliability is spotty at best, but I think you might be able to find it there. Trustworthiness aside, you can get at least some bulk stats for individual heroes filtered to specific rank regions (as long as you don’t want console data, which isn’t offered in that menu subset). Still struck me as quite bizarre when I checked my individual stats on Overbuff sometime in the past couple months, and they were all consistent with Blizzard’s UI/webpages (at least where you had identical fields), but the scoped crit rate for Widow isn’t reported on Overbuff. There’s obvious caution flags with their bulk stats too, like pick rates not adding up to a consistent normalization point. So I wouldn’t fault you for not wanting to check OB at all.
I’d expect her elims to be lower for much the same reason her damage should be lower; Widow usually isn’t peppering the field with damage, so she’s directly participating in fewer kills. So unless that hypothesis were shown to be false, I’m not sure how much we could glean from it.
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The primary issue flankers are having rn is that unless it’s Tracer, it’s extremely difficult to burst down a target because of the healing and overpowered support cooldowns this game has. If the artificial sustain (and some of the burst damage creep too) was nerfed, the game would be in a way more healthy spot.
She was F tier. Sustain poison damage in this game can never work under any circumstances without there being an in-combat healing debuff.