I am pro inclusion, diversity, accessibility. I see it (special esports rosters) making a positive difference to get more people into OW (or esports in general), and showcase them in a sanctioned spotlight. But they usually butcher the diversity choices. Race, gender, orientation - but what about age, neurodiversity, or poverty? The later often fall through the cracks of so many social-wellfare programs, because being black+female is the rage while being old + stay-at-home autism dad isn’t.
In terms of esports and who is on an esports roster…
Litmus test: is it a skill-based meritocracy or not?
Should some players be given special considerations over/under others? Why?
The moment you say “ok we have to pull these people over and set things up differently for them” is the moment you’re literally NOT being inclusive. That’s literally what discrimination means in the sense of exclusion/partitioning - the recognition of difference. Why create that if it’s not there and/or we don’t want it to be there?
This isn’t fair for skill-based rankings (i.e. comp and ladder).
You wouldn’t give someone a different IQ test based on gender or ethnicity or orientation.
Just play in your rank/league/weightclass. Set up special scrims, fine.
I can see age-based esports more “inclusive” than ones that cherrypick under-represented groups to be on the roster and don’t even choose the most under-respresented (native/firstnations people are by far the most deserving sub-pop by raw data vs. representation). The more they put females on their own roster, for instance, the more they tell my daughters they’re not good enough to compete with boys. The only message it sends is “you’re vulnerable and need to be in a protected group”. How is that teaching fairness and confidence?
I think, “inclusiveness” in this sense meant that women got a chance to compete on their own pro level.
“Safe environment” probably means that it is safe for them to compete with each other because they’d be on an equal grounds. If they were to play against pros from OWL, it would not be “safe” for them, because they’d get demolished.
OWL and Contenders are entities that try to pick the best players. If there was a female player that could be on the same level as the likes of SBB, Pine, Jjonak, Ryu, etc, I am sure the team owners would at least invite them for some play-tests.
We need to remember that there are many factors involving being a team member in any setting. Skill, of course, is the primary qualification, but there’s also group chemistry, attitude, etc… Who knows, maybe at one point they had some female qualifiers but they didn’t meet certain criteria or didn’t fit well with the team?
People are just reading too much into this blog post.
Maybe there was a reason for its delay?
Maybe the blog writer isn’t well-versed and couldn’t come up with proper wording, but who am I kidding? Nowadays, no matter what you write, people will still find some words and phrases to be mad about.
Let’s also not forget that this is a community led event.
Blizzard already has enough on their plate to try to come up and manage a 4th tournament for OW. Let them at least get the other 3 right. They are already struggling with viewership, and it’s not because there are no women players.
Basically, it’s a numbers thing. In childhood, men are pushed towards sports and women until only relatively recently have been pushed away. Then as you move up from casual to professional, more external forces mount because of gender role expectations and other things you may not consider, like for example what OWL team is going to invest in, say, separate facilities for female players? Think things like having to pay for an extra hotel room because you can’t have coed bunking and not have players react badly - I saw this problem on my high school chess team because our 8th board was female, and there was some grumbling about the added expense when we went to state championships.
It’s much easier for a team to pass over people who may cause extra headaches in favor of someone lesser skilled who doesn’t.
The problem with your argument here is you already summed up the answer in your first sentence:
Currently, I don’t believe there’s enough females who are t500+ to warrant making the changes necessary.
I don’t blame organizations for not wanting to spend the money on a single female talent when there are 10+ male talents that can fulfill the same role (t500+ tank for example) at less expense.
If we had a 50/50 split (which to be fair, there’s no reason why not at t500 level) of males and females it would be easier for teams to make 3/3 line-ups and justify the extra cost (or perhaps get more promotion/sponsors due to having more female players - beauty, wellness, etc).
Personally, we need to stop making excuses like ‘misogyny’ and look at the fact there’s not many t500+ female players to begin with (because of lack of interest from females in playing at higher levels or FPS games in general…)
That’s where the numbers come in: You can’t possibly expect multiple Contenders worthy candidates from a pool when the women’s share of the pool - although more than other shooters - is so small. Then add in hostility from other players - if you were a t500 female player, would YOU want to scrim with a Sinaatra or a Mouffin?
But then the problem is that even if you ARE good enough, you still have to be that much better than everyone else to be worth the hassle to a team. Think of the first black players in baseball or football - they had to be head and shoulders one of the best in the game AND be able to deal with the overt hostility.
They’re toxic to everyone, why are you bringing sex (male/female) in to it? Part of playing at the elite level is encountering people like this and having a thick skin.
In a lot of sports players do it to throw other players off their game, it has nothing to do with sex.
The fact you’re making out women can’t deal with it is quite misogynistic.
It’s not. It’s just about empowering certain groups. Giving illusion, that they can do things others can, even if it requires setting up specific conditions to work. Which can give false confidence, yes.
To give those people way to win, even if they are completely unable to by usual standards.
And who said we do not want it to be there? We do, because we can’t just hurt someone’s feelings by openly telling them, that they do not deserve to win due to not meeting certain criteria winner should have.
In the process we turn whole competition into a joke, but hey, at least everyone gets to win.
Nah, this is important to start doing. Creating an environment for women to be and compete in is the stepping stone for getting them into mixed competitive play.
There were some really dumb and ignorant takes when CSGO announced something similar and these guys basically debunk all of that nonsense.
The issue isnt that you have female only cups. The issue is with the implied indirect message that women need to be protected from men to create a safe environment for them to play. The whole male sex gets antagonised and made responsible for all the issues females face in modern esports.
It is not that women dont want to be become pros or lack the skill or ambition to go for such a career, but its men harassing them out of the profession.
CS tournaments are extremely better and more mature than anything Blizz has done with OW.
Probably the main concern is that the stakes are too big in terms of prizes, but I disagree with the people saying that it’s unfair per se. Surely it’s skewed in favor of participation, but it’s also a motivator so more women get in the scene.
But yeah, it’s kinda puzzling that blizzard themselves haven’t done a women’s league, with all the “values they stand for”
That CSGO has had years of women tournaments. It’s only when the stakes are like majors for what’s perceived as “not as good” skillet that people complain.
Then I said I don’t agree with their argument because bigger prize pools are a lure to get more women in the scene.
Your message implied CSGO didn’t previously have women’s tournaments, or that the feedback was because it was a women’s tournament. That is false information or at least presented in a misleading way
