Getting the right kills is a little vague but he’s right about moment to moment gameplay > scoreboard farming. You can have a very impactful kill that’s more valuable than 2 kills in another situation.
100% - It’s literally disgusting to see support and tanks doing so much more damage than dps. Like, what the hell is the point then?
Sorry, what? Killing e.g. a support is infinitely more valuable than killing a DPS. If you cut off their healing, the rest of the team falls apart. If you kill the tank, their team can’t push.
If you constantly spam damage (and farm stats) without getting any kills, you are only feeding the enemy team free ult charge.
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I have been saying this forever and people are still too stupid to understand this.
The amount of damage you do means NOTHING. If you are doing damage and not getting elims, all you’re doing is damaging HEALED DAMAGE. All you’re doing is completing a never-ending circle with no results.
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This IS a shooter MOBA. Its macro game is closer to DOTA than to CoD/Fortnite/etc.
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Mate IDK how much clear can I say it, I am not talking about “what people say” or “what people perceive as”, I am talking about what it is.
You can say that when X role is truly at fault Z role takes the blame all you want but that is NOT at all what I am saying. And you know it. And you know I am also right so moving on …
Not even close.
DPS stops being relevant at low Plat MAX.
Literally the combo from Supp + Tank can carry anyone to Diamond, unless you are hardcore throwing. A 2 digit IQ Tank just has to hit Tab once and see who is the DPS being pocketed and focus on deny his/her plays. Nothing will happen beyond Gold.
Remember this fact:
Eliminations DONT yield points, holding space does. And thats a Tank’s job.
Almost never hear anyone say “dps diff” in chat, always the tank and support diff. Yet the role that has the most options, is the most flexible. There are times when a tank or support sucks, and there are times when a DPS is scoreboard farming without doing anything meaningful; most of the time it is indeed the latter, because there are more DPS players than any other role.
This.
And I’m the damn support asking this a lot of the time.
Exactly my experience after the S9 changes and perks. It really is more DPS diff then ever.
Kind of the point of the original design of the game was that the objective mattered more than getting kills.
Of course, the Damage-role doesn’t have the sustainability to capture objectives on their own, or even control them. It, again, tends to favor the Tank-role more than other roles.
And obviously, that’s why GOATS happened and what the game boiled down to.
Teamwork doesn’t really work when there’s so much dependency and intentional and inherent balancing designs between the roles. The Tank-role is the most powerful and more useful role in the game, followed by the Support-role. Only they can control the objective effectively, the Damage-role - despite being the most popular and most numerous - is largely window dressing in a game that disproportionately favors the other roles.
Even now, with the mandated role locks and role queues, any open queue game predominately favors the Tanks and Supports over the Damage-role. And Blizzard had the opportunity to change that with OW2’s release, and didn’t do it for any number of reasons.
Ehhh, depending on the skill level and whether or not your team can pay attention, you can still eek out a win even if your Tank struggles or dies a lot.
But, again, this is highly dependent on the rest of your team putting out enough skill and power equal or above a typical Tank.
Moreso on the Supports than on the Damage-role.
There are countless games I’ve played where I’ve outhealed my Supports on a self-healing Tank, and still lost a game because the Supports would rather feed or try to damage instead of healing and supporting their team.
I’ve willingly handicapped myself multiple times with other Tanks like Roadhog and watch my team pull off a victory too, and still outhealed my Supports. Some opposing players on the opposing team are too easily distracted and rather follow me to “lord-knows-where” than try to stop my team from pushing the payload as well.
Important point. Back in original OW1, we had situations where Tanks were either too passive and sat on chokes all game, or too aggressive and fed themselves up to the opposing team. In the latter cases, a lot of this could been mitigated by the rest of the team moving in with their Tank(s) and mitigating those risks.
We still have Supports with “holier-than-thou” attitudes, and being unwilling to take risks or follow the team to do their job, and so it’s less of an issue with Tanks and Damage-role heroes, and more of an issue with Supports being unwilling, and yet also being entirely dependent on them to get any sort of job done against a capable team.
This heavy inter-dependency and and sustain being almost entirely dependent on one role to do their job and not take an attitude “everyone’s stupid except me” is a real problem. Future games really need to take into account that healing can’t be this vital or that the team can’t be held hostage by an easy-to-use healing class or by healing in general.
To the degree in which another role can do the Damage-roles job of securing kills, this is not as extreme as some might think.
The recent passive adding to the Damage-role does allow them to more accurately and more confidently secure kills better than that what the Tank-role or Support-role (or even facilitate through artillery and teamwork); but many Tanks also maintain strong kill combos or one-shots that the Damage-role can struggle with or simply lack. The ease at which the Tank-role can apply their damage versus many in the Damage-role can, is also an important point. Most Tanks don’t need to aim; practically every Damage-role has too, even with the buffs to projectile and hitscan sizes.
No, this is actually wrong.
What Blizzard and the community has found is that up until a certain rank (usually Platinum), the weight of each role who tends to win games is lopsidedly weighted towards the Tank and Support roles because of the difficulty in playing the Damage-role.
Once you get up to Platinum and higher ranks, the Damage-role starts to pulling a bit more weight and success can lean more on them. On the other end, as you get up higher and higher in rankings, healing becomes less and less weighted towards success, but Tanking pretty much remains the same or holds the same weight across all ranks (though by GM, this kind veers slightly more towards the Damage-role over the Tank-role).
Most Tanks don’t have weapons that require ammo, or don’t require aim. Support-role heroes tend to have larger projectiles than anyone in the Damage-role. Everyone in the Damage-role tends to require strong mechanical aim to deal damage. And even the classic, launch-era, Defense-role heroes are less mechanically inclined than launch-era or post-release Damage-role heroes.
Compare Mei, or Torbjorn to Pharah and Soldier. Or Sojourn and Sombra to Bastion and Junkrat.
There’s also the fact that every Tank has area-effect damage, something that most Damage-role heroes do not have on their non-ultimate kits. Reaper can’t hit more than one target until Death Blossom is available, for example.
Total damage dealt/healing done still has some weight. Many pro or high level players tend to have damage-totals far beyond most middle-rank or low-rank players. But total eliminations don’t always see such a wide disparity.
Eliminations do count more than total damage/healing. That remains a fact, but it isn’t like Marvel Rivals where total damage/healing numbers can be really inconsequential.
No, this isn’t really true.
This is true.
The problem here is that MOST players don’t understand this, including DPS players. There are so many players that expect DPS to solo kill enemies for the team instead of being the finishers. They’ll just stand there and wait for DPS picks instead of actively engaging the enemy to create openings for the DPS to GET THOSE PICKS.
There are plenty of DPS players that think their job is to shoot tanks all day as well unfortunately.
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Every game with an enemy Ana smurf and two hitscan dps that can’t hit shots is a painful experience.
Is it, in reality? Because the DPS has been very lopsided for years. If you dont pick a godscan or similar favored hero, you wont have a very good time.
The DPS role, the more you climb, feels like it has the least flexibility.
No useless roles, only useless people playing them.
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Youre not right because again it all comes down to shifting the blame but sure.
No, you could argue diamond but in reality probably closer to Masters.
Lol this is like just saying “just shoot them in the head 4 head” in reality its not so simple.
I dont believe i said otherwise?
Because again its easier to shift the blame onto sole player in a role.
Which literally proves my point lol.
Must be a NA thing I guess, in EU you are not getting away with that at all past Plat.
Never said it so simple, but its insanely easier than trying to deny Support/Tank plays and thats not even a question. Watch any GM/Master stream from a DPS ever.
So Im right about DPS being less relevant, therefore OP has a point.
Sure no one is “useless” but if we had to make a list, its no secret DPS are at the bottom. Again this is reality 
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Im EU and you infaxt do. Ive had countless games as DPS where ive popped off, my tank has struggled but we win comfotably. Same time ive had the other DPS pop off and carry a struggling tank.
DPS and Supports shifting the blame onto the tank instead of admitting they were at fault? Im guessing we do agree the.
Sure tried to make it sound single.
Watch any GM tank player also and watch them suffer as theyre stuck with a mercy Moira backline and a 2-10 dps crying tank diff.
Its not the reality for most ranks and players, DPS have just brainwashed themselves over time because they cant one shot everything constantly and be lobby admins every game thay somehow means thwyre irrelevant.
ONE DPS ? Nah. It has to be both mate, you know this. Sci fi doesn’t work.
Single? No.
Its easy to see (yes that simple), I never said is simple to implement.
Never ever in my life, Ive seen a GM match where DPS are crying about Moira/Mercy 
Feel Free to post any Replay, VoD here because Moira in GM is hilarious to start with.
It is, at least in this universe.
Again, a DPS needs to be at least 2 ranks above to “carry”. A Tank just needs to be slightly better, same with Supports. DPS are not useless but they are on the bottom of the list.
Look at any Flex T500 and you can verify which role has the less Rank, its pretty consistent mate, sorry
Not with how some DPS are balanxed currently.
A tank needs to be better than the entire enemy team, DPS just need to be better than their counterpart.
Theres thay brainwashing again.
if you’re a DPS flanking when you don’t need too or don’t when you have too…
picked the wrong hero
just farming kills
bad priority on targets
there’s many things you can do to be useless as DPS. doesn’t mean DPS is useless.
solo DPS that ignore their team and hog healing, those are useless
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