I was specifically referring to mercy mains who believe she is unfun, not all of them as a whole.
But you really aren’t? Anyone who has said there are a lot of revert mercy posts, which there are- and that’s the general consensus, you plug your ears and request specific numbers. That’s not shutting it down, that’s being obnoxious. Even the megathread is filled with pleas to revert her. I’m not saying EVERY Mercy main wants a revert over a rework. But you know that there are a lot asking for it. You know that counting individual posts would take forever. And you know nobody is going to to do it. It just fits your argument, so I mean…
Not having a subforum is more than enough excuse for why such a flood exists. Don’t blame the community’s “hot topic” taking over the forums due to this websites lack of organization. People aren’t going to organize their website for them and suddenly stop talking about things they are passionate about.
Sorry, society doesn’t work that way.
Good clarification.
Your statement was
What data do you have that statistically proves this as true? Prisinence out right called you out on that and essentially called your claim a lie when they offered factual data with their stats. What evidence can you give that goes against their claim?
Also you don’t know me. You are not me. So your claim of saying “Oh! You KNOW that there’s a lot! Hint hint wink wink!” Is completely irrelevant and just you making an opinion without facts.
So I ask again, where are your sources that proves that there are “a lot of revert mercy posts?”
Jeez acting like youre a bunch of intensely neglected children, like this is some great tragedy we should all feel bad about, its a video game, chill out and pick another hero.
A subforum is a good idea. However, it doens’t excuse people complaining all day long.
The people making the threads are 100% the ones to blame. They could just not make the threads.
Not sure why you’re trying to bring society into this…? Society tends not to work with sub-forums either. In fact… society works exaclty the way it’s happening now on the forums.
in about a minute to a minute and a half, I just counted over 50 posts asking for Mercy to be reverted in the megathread, and I thought I was done when i hit the bottom- just for my scrollbar to go half of my page. And then I remembered- there’s 19,000 posts. Which means there’s likely thousands of posts about it! If you want to act oblivious to the forums around you until someone gives you a specific number, that’s on you. But it doesn’t take supervision to see all the posts asking for her to be reverted in some form.
But, since I don’t have the specific number for you, feel free to tell me how I am wrong.
If my main went thru a rework and was warned on the ptr that it was going to be overpowered, costing 14 nerfs and almost a years worth of headaches, with people telling me that they’re finally balanced only a few weeks later they start screaming that my main is still op, I’d be angry too. It doesn’t help help either that all the threads that contained the M word were shoved into a black hole. I saw a couple of good posts like brawls pacify e ability to replace current ressurect or make rez similar to dead eye so it would more counterable . Blizzards gotta step it up and start communicating with people on which ideas can work and what can’t, simple remarks like’ hey this a good idea’ or ’ sorry this is to difficult to implement in game’ would go a long way. If they start doing that then I assure you these threads would be cut down significantly, but hey what can you expect from a small indie company ?
It’s a forum where people have discussions. Everyone isn’t going to be sunshine and daisies about everything at all times. Sometimes people complain. That’s reality. People complain on forums. The Mercy posts aren’t being deleted, so apparently not even the mods think that they are just “complaining all day”. People make anti-mercy threads all the time and they get their point across and no one bats an eye. I think a handful of mercy posts about their unhappiness with the hero is completely excusable. Especially since there are no subforums and the Mercy feedback thread to post their feedback in is locked.
Or they could just keep making threads until they get a response. That’s the beauty of having opinions in a forum. Just because YOU don’t want them to make threads, doesn’t mean that your opinion is the right one.
Oh? Give me a source of “society not working with sub-forums”. I am interested to know what factual data you can give me that proves your claim. Unless of course, you are just giving an opinion.
Your statement originally was
I asked what proof that you can give me that proves that revert mercy posts are common. You linked me to one forum about Mercy, and made references to the mercy feedback thread.
You still have not given me statistics that all of those posts are “mostly revert mercy posts”. You simply linked a few threads and hoped that I assumed you are right.
Spoiler alert. You are wrong.
Common by definition is: “Occurring, found, or done often; prevalent.”
I’m not sure if 1 thread and a closed megathread qualifies as a “revert mercy posts are common”. You were already proven with facts that revert mercy posts are in fact, not common. And you failed to give the numbers (because you have no numbers). Its good to know that even you are admitting that fact at this point.
Funny you should say that because I actually have been talking about how they are just as bad as the Mercy threads.
Cool assumption though.
Yeah, me too. Half of the front page being Mercy related is not a “handful”.
Except that would actually diminish the value of the forums that you’re pretending to uphold. Forums aren’t meant to be majorly one topic. It’s “general discussion” not “Threads about Mercy, threads about threads about Mercy and a couple of other things”.
Yeah, see that’s not how society works. Normally when someone makes a claim, they are meant to present evidence to support their claim, not wait for someone to disagree and then ask them to prove their scepticism.
Trying to pull that stunt just lost you all of your credibility.
“Half?” There are currently 5 mercy threads on the front page. There are 20 displayed topics. Doing some basic math… 5 divided by 20 =/= 10. “A handful” consists of around five of something… Your statement of “half the front-page is mercy related” is objectively false.
http://prntscr.com/kjtrff
Value is subjective. What you find valuable does not equate to everyone’s perception on what value actually is. Your opinions are not fact. Also here’s some news for you. You don’t dictate what the General discussion should be about. “General” pertains to talking about anything - a broad scope. If that means that they talk about Mercy, then it’s completely acceptable. There is no hard “limit” as to what a general discussion should contain, and according to my previous post, 7/20 isn’t even half.
Society is defined as: “an organization or club formed for a particular purpose or activity.”
This forum, is a society… Whether you like that fact or not.
We all share a common interest. Overwatch
We all are here to discuss a particular activity. Discussing Overwatch.
Trying to make the claim that “society doesn’t work in a sub-forum” is incorrect.
Just because you exist in a society, doesn’t excuse you for not being expected to back up what you say with fact.
While I can’t argue against what you said, as it is literally true, I was using hyperbole in my claim, and that does not weaken my point.
Hence why I was specifically talking about what you regarded as value and your contradictions in regards to it.
Whether or not it’s OK, or allowed isn’t relevant. There is a flood of Mercy threads on the forums and some people aren’t happy about it. This thread is saying not to blame Mercy mains for it, when it’s 100%, completely, absolutely and entirely their fault.
All of this is completely irrelevant.
This is both ironic and hypocritical since that’s exactly what I called you out on in the first place.
You made a contradictory claim, yet didn’t back it up with any fact at all. You then waited for me to challenge it and asked me to prove my disagreement, which isn’t how it works.
Typically, you say this when you counter someone’s point and not when you don’t address it at all.
Using hyperbole does weaken your point. You yourself admitted that you can’t argue against what I’ve said. You are objectively false…
But… You don’t know what I regard as “Value”. You are trying to justify subjective opinions as fact, when I’ve told you that it is actually the contrary. You have no idea what I think is valuable or not. You can only make assumptions. Thus, that point is moot in this discussion.
Except… It’s not actually a flood, because I have already proven to you with facts that there are about a handful actually on the front page. Your idea of a “flood” is an over-exaggeration.
Also, this thread is definitely saying don’t blame them, because there are many reasons as to why such a “flood” exists, as I’ve clearly stated in my OP. Just because YOU think that it’s 100% the fault of Mercy mains, does not make your opinion fact. You have no evidence to back up your claim, and adding an arbitrary percentage of “how much at fault they are” does not make your claim any more true.
“I was just proven wrong with facts, but since I can’t rebuttal it nor admit that I was wrong, I will call it irrelevant. Because If I think it’s irrelevant, it is no longer factual.”
Seems legit.
Let’s keep score… I backed my claims with fact. You did not. It isn’t irony. You are in denial.
Contradictory claim? lol that’s amusing. So now text book definition is “contradictory?” I’m sorry, but you’re going to have to try harder than to just cover your eyes and call things that prove you wrong “contradictions”, while not backing up your own claims with facts. You have no facts in this case. I’m pretty sure that my claims are sound. But sure, keep denying fact.
When someone says “I’ve told you 1000” times when they have in fact only told you 700 times. Sure, the words they said are not literally true, but their point stands that they’ve already told you too many times. Do you understand now?
Yeah, except for the fact that you literally said. But if you want to gloss over that point, then sure. I’m not going to complain about having less to write in later replies.
No, it’s not just a “handful”. Your definition of a “handful” is a huge over-simplification. And as for describiting it as a flood, I was mimicking the OP’s own term.
There is no sub-forum for Lucio when he was dead. There is no sub-forum for Soldier or McCree for when hitscan was dead. There is no sub-forum for Mercy for her in her balanced state. Soldier threads never occupied a large percentage of the front page, nor Lucio nor McCree. But they did for Mercy. I wonder what the differenence is. Oh, yeah, the people that like playing them. Thus, the Mercy mains are reponsible for all of the Mercy threads. Simple really, just wish I knew which words I have to use to make you understand.
No, you tried to counter an argument that I never made in the first place. You argued that Overwatch is a society. I never said it wasn’t. My claim was that society doesn’t work in sub-forums, which you never countered.
The only thing you’ve proven thus far is that Mercy threads do not literally occupy exactly half of the forums, which is neither significant nor my main point.
I’m not denying fact. The single fact you made I admitted was in deed a fact:
Everything else you said was riddled with delusion. Especially since you kept deciding to chose not to address my key point and focus on smaller and insignificant things.
No, you haven’t. You used it as an miserable attempt to try to self-validate (or alternative belittle) your ultimately weak and uninspiring post.
Once again, redundant and worthless post with a pinch of delusion meaning that your cute closing jibe is meaningless and used incorrectly.
Irrelevant. Here’s the facts. You assumed that half of the forum’s front page is filled with Mercy threads with your statement.
There was nothing in that sentence that you wrote that dictates that you were being hyperbolic. If you said “in my opinion” or “just as a hyperbole” you would have made your point from the beginning. But you failed to do so, leading the reader to assume that you were making a claim as if it was fact…
Only after I proved you wrong, did you jump on the bandwagon of “Oh its hyperbole! So my statement is valid now!” Unfortunately, English text doesn’t work that way… It’s not my job to “assume” whether or not your claims are factual over text on the internet, it’s your job to make it plain. That’s like someone making a sarcastic comment without including an “/s” or “sarcasm”. No one knows who you are personally on here, so if your intentions in your words aren’t clear, you should expect someone to either ask for clarification, or call you out on it, as I have done.
You made a claim about me saying something that I regard as “value” in terms of our discussion? Then lets hear it. I’m calling you out on saying that such a claim does not exist, so unless you have proof of what you’ve said, I’ll just write it off as you just making assumptions without facts again…
Handful by definition: “a small number or amount.” 5 out of 20 threads on the front page is a small number. Explain how it is an “over-simplification.” You are denying facts again. Also you remark about “mimicking OP’s own terms”. I have given reasons as to why one shouldn’t “blame mercy mains flooding the forums” and posted actual data in some cases. You have not, and just gave me an opinion. Don’t blame me for asking you for sources as well to prove your point and not just be seen as “another dude making a baseless opinion on mercy threads with no hard evidence”
Lucio, Soldier, and McCree weren’t given a completely new rework, made OP for 5 months, and then nerfed 11 times. To add, not sure how you don’t understand why a Mercy Feedback thread exists. It’s literally spelled out for you on the first page of in every official Mercy feedback thread.
Your claim was that “sub forums cannot have a society” I’ve proven you wrong with examples of how the OW forums and a society share similarities. You resorted to saying “oh that’s irrelevant.” You disengaged instead of having a counter-argument. You ASSUMED thatr I meant Overwatch (the game), when I clearly mentioned the forums. Not sure what point you’re trying to make here.
You mean besides the other points I’ve clearly proven to you. By the way, where are any of your facts and data in any of your claims regarding Mercy mains and their threads? Where are your sources and links? Where are your definitions? Oh that’s right. They don’t exist because you’re just giving an opinion and assuming it as fact, huh?
That’s the pot calling the kettle black. You have failed on all fronts to give me any inclination that anything you’ve said thus far in this discussion was factual, in my opinion. I’m pretty sure you are the one who’s delusional…
Awww that’s cute, you’re resorting to insults because you have no rebuttals to my claims again. How nice.
You seem upset… Hmmm… The facts still remain though lol. Good attempt…
Not my fault that you can’t tell when someone is obviously exaggerating or when they’re attempting to make a literal claim.
Hyperbole has been used for thousands of years in pieces of writing without a descriptor clarifying that it is hyperbole. By it’s very function, it is for people to deduce that hyperbole is being used.
Sarcasm is primarily a spoken word technique, whereas hyperbole is both spoken word and written word. Comparing the two holds no weight.
Yes, but when people ask or call me out on it, and I explain or clarify accordingly, they usually make a point about lack of clarity and leave it at that, whereas you are trying to push the lack of initial clarity as if that somehow strengthens your point.
This was the paragraph where you gave your opinions on the concept of public forum and the beauty of it. I don’t remember your exact wording, and you’ve since omitted a part of it and changed your wording of others. And before you get pedantic, no, you did not use the word value, and no, you are not required to.
Congratulation on your second fact of the discussion.
This is perspective. 5/20 is 25%. Not to mention that it was previously higher. Can’t even be bothered to check if 2 of the threads have since died or you’re being hypocritical and saying something isn’t literally true and waiting for to address it since it doesn’t matter. Whether or not threads stay on the front page is irrelevant, but people keep making them.
If you get an idea and think “Yeah, that seems about right” that doesn’t mean it is a fact.
Yeah, again, you’re dodging the point. I suggest you cast your eyes back and read my first post again. I wasn’t complaining about the number of Mercy threads. My point was this:
So, throughout all of this you’re claiming that you’re proving me wrong while you argue against claims that I didn’t even make.
Regardless of what happened, other heroes have been in more controversial spots of balance as Mercy, but maybe you’d rather I compare to Sym then? Sym’s been reworked twice. Not everyone was happy, and people complainged. Now? Sym 3.0 complaint threads are few and far between, but people are still complaining about Mercy’s rework.
No, that’s actually not at all what I said.
See? Very different things.
I am not, in any way, compelled to try to make or back up counter arguments when you “prove wrong” a claim or comment which I never made. So, no.
Once again, I don’t need to make a rebuttal to your irrelevant claims.
The fact remains that after all of this time you still haven’t addressed my main point, and seem to have entirely misunderstood what I was saying in the first place.
At this point I should be saying this to you. In all of your comments you’re yet to add anything of value since you’re responding to what you want me to think and what I actually think.
Hyperbole by definition is: “Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.” You had given zero clues in your past statement that you were being hyperbolic. None at all. So It’s safe to assume that you actually believed your opinions as fact - until I proved you objectively wrong.
Read above… You are deflecting again.
Hyperbole is obvious in it’s delivery. Your delivery was honestly generic and completely lacking of any contextual clues. Therefore, you weren’t being hyperbolic. You just outright tried to be right and got shut down…
I was giving an example of clearly giving contextual clues. They both assume that the reader clearly understands the context. You have royally failed to communicate your hyperbole. Period… It’s a shame that you still seem to fail to realize that.
Except… You never explained nor clarified your claims. In fact, the only things you actually put the effort into explaining in your claims was your “afterthought hyperbole” and you admitting that you were wrong in your statement of “Half the front page are Mercy threads”. I don’t recall you bringing up any actual facts or statements otherwise besides the generic “this is my opinion, therefore I’m right” statements in regards to Mercy threads, and thus you are left constantly trying to justify your opinions as fact.
The bolded text is all that is relevant. You claimed I said A, such statement was proven false, and you admitted it. Good job.
Also show me where I’ve “omitted a part of it and changed my wording for others” Are you once again making a claim that you have no evidence of? If not, let’s see it. Otherwise, we shouldn’t make accusations on what someone said, without proof.
Here’s the “third” fact. In your specific sentence, It’s spelled “Congratulations”, not “Congratulation”.
“25” is less than your claim of “Half”. Half means 50%. You are still objectively false… Also prove to me that it was “previously higher” please. I would like to see data and sources that back up this claim. Otherwise, I will have to just call you out again as making opinions as if they are fact.
That’s a really tragic story, truly it is. But here’s the reality. That’s your problem, not mine. Where are the facts that back up your claim?
“If I can’t prove it, it’s irrelevant. But my statement about it is still fact, even if I have no proof.”
Seems legit.
Also you brought up the front page thing, not me. Now that that talking point is of no use to your argument, I assume that you no longer want to own up to it?
And if you don’t have any facts or evidence to back up your claims, that doesn’t mean that your opinions are factual either. Glad we have established this common knowledge.
You made the claim that Mercy threads are flooding the forums, hence your “There is no need for the Mercy flood” remark. I’ve asked you for proof constantly of how that is the case, and you gave me that “Half of the forums are mercy threads” statement, with no proof, that I completely destroyed… Did I miss anything?
And to beat you to the punch, you only just recently brought up this statement…
So allow me to ask. You said that the other heroes (besides mercy) EQUALLY receive little feedback. Are you sure you want to stick with that claim, because if so, I would love proof of it. Unless of course you are once again, stating opinions as if they are fact.
I didn’t just “claim” that I have proven you wrong. I have actually proven you wrong multiple times and you have even openly admitted it. There is no confusion there.
More controversial spots? That is your own opinion. So once again, not factual. I could just as easily reply with “Nah, Mercy was way more controversial… She has had pro players talk about how much they hate her, witch-hunts against the people that play her, the negative stereotypes surrounding her as an “OP Moth” during her rework’s initial stages, the list goes on.” And you wouldn’t anything to argue against me with besides your trademark “Oh well, that’s irrelevant” reply.
There is no way to measure “how much more controversial” a balance update was compared to another, so that point does not hold any weight to this discussion… Here’s the facts: Mercy was the most nerfed hero. Period. Patch notes proves this. She was given one of the most impactful reworks, period. Statistics from various sources (that I can even provide if you want) proves this. These are not even debatable topics at this point are they?
Okay then, if we are going to be technical about this, do explain to me why Society does not work with sub-forums. Oh and yes, provide facts and data that proves it by the way. I don’t want to assume that you are making claims just on opinion and not fact. Thanks!
Okay then, read above.
Except you do, read above.
[citation needed]
I have proven your claims objectively wrong multiple times. And you have admitted that you were wrong twice so far. All you have done so far was make opinion after opinion with no proof and when challenged on them, either called them “irrelevant” or diverted to a different topic, being completely hypocritical and asking ME for proof instead. I’m not the one who has to prove most of my claims about Mercy mains and their flooding with fact. You are. And I’m still waiting. You have yet to answer MY questions.
Good attempt though, now start giving me the facts and links I keep asking for that proves the past statements you made (that I keep challenging you on) as fact, instead of calling everything you can’t prove as “irrelevant” just to get out of having to back up your own statements. Appreciate it!
This definition at no point states that you are meant to spell out that you’re using a rhetorical technique.
You want a medal for failing to detect hyperbole? I don’t feel inclined to oblige, in all honesty.
Admittedly, I only scan read the rest of your post. I saw a lot of you pretending that your inability to detect hyperbole was somehow my fault and claiming to have proven claims (which I didn’t make) wrong. You didn’t address my point in any previous post and I find it hard to believe that that would magically change. If you want another reply you may make a post responding to the claim I made in the first comment instead of drawing attention to inconsequential things. That said, I can’t imagine you doing that. You’ll probably just focus on something which is irrelevant, pretend it isn’t irrelevant and then make it seem as if that baseless decision is somehow a weakness in my posts.
Good luck out there, man. I hope your lack of attention to what you’re reading doesn’t make you derail any future discussions.
Oh, yeah, the people that like playing them. Thus, the Mercy mains are reponsible for all of the Mercy threads. Simple really, just wish I knew which words I have to use to make you understand.