Don’t nerf Moira’s damage with her rework

General Discussion
61

Moira doesn’t have the lowest DPS in the game. This is a laughable, and outright lie you see constantly which even in-game stats should show up as the unutterable nonsense it really is. Actually take two seconds to look at realistic accuracy stats for even GM-ranked supports instead of just reciting Tik Tok memes, and you’ll see Moira’s DPS is excellent.

Her burst damage is weak. So getting elims is a challenge if the enemy has peel and you have no damage orb, but her sustained DPS is actually exceptional for a support.

62

I absolutely hope they nerf her damage with her rework.
She is one of, if not the, most deadly support.

Edit: Forgot Zen, but still.

63

she doesn’t need life steal in bronze/silver. she needs it in diamond+ to be effective at what she’s for, which is using her mobility+damage to get indirect utility so she can compete with enemy healers who are providing direct team utility.

64

Her damage is already extremely low. I doubt they’d nerf that. Its mostly her orb that racks up a ton of trash damage, but that is probably the focus of the rework.

65

Maybe on paper but not in actual gameplay scenarios when other heroes are capable of missing and moira has aimbot.

66

Kiriko at least deserves her kills. Moira deserves less damage than she already has unless it comes in the form of skill.

67

Moira is fine. Most of her damage is just trash damage. This is a bronze take.

68

DPS = Damage per second. If you see the damage per second capabilities of all supports you will see she has one of the lowest until she combos with her abilities.
Support Max Dps Potentials…

Mercy Blaster - 100 baseline dps, 200 headshot dps
Kiriko- 72.72 baseline bodyshot dps, 218.16 Headshot dps
Zenyatta - Damage per second: 120 while firing 150 /w discord
240 headshot dps, 300 headshot dps with discord
Lucio- 86 dps, 172 headshot dps
Baptiste- 127.55 dps 255 Headshot Dps Bapstise would be lower though generally due to his aiming recoil annoyance.
Ana- 93.75 while firing at any range with aim down sights to boot. Combo that with 60 damage grenade and anti heals makes for much lethal situations.
Moira- 50 dps primary fire, 50 dps orbs, 70 dps ultimate Highest dps she can do is 120 dps with orb and ult but that’s only for 4 seconds then it turns into 70 dps aoe only. Which granted when the enemy stacks for you in a straight line could deal up to 350 dps. But your enemy team would need to let that happen. 5 People in a straight line…

Bridgettte - 58.33 dps Very small aoe cleave. With a 70 damage whipshot. Which could lead to a slight 1 second of doing around 130 dps ish.

Moira has one of the lowest dps outside her abilities. Bridgette is the second worse at damage. And lucio is third.

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69

You’re talking about DPS Ceilings. With 100% accuracy. So you’re already in a fantasy world why not just go all-in, and assume 100% crit rates, and double it?

The real world will go on merrily without you either way.

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70

Yes dps ceilings. Because maximizing her damage is already on the low side compared to others and there burst windows. That can be achieved a decent % of the time.

Most of the uptime she has on a 50 dps primary fire which is trash damage. Her burst windows are her ability combos. Whereas normal supports have those regularly.

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71

Remove right click auto aim and then I don’t really care about moira. Remove that stupid orb too

72

I honestly felt like the best utility for Moira was the cleanse at the end of the fade.

It provided a risk factor, you use it to save yourself or jump into damage.

Unpopular opinion, I like the idea of whenever she is low on the healing resource meter, she uses her own health to heal her team. This was a very interesting idea for Moira, as it displays she practice on herself for an experiment.

73

Yes dps ceilings

That’s all you needed to say. DPS Ceiling =/= Burst DPS =/= Actual DPS. One glimpse at accuracy and damage per ten stats on various supports shows how nonsensical it is to claim that Moira has low DPS.

74

That all depends on rank. So your arguement is a hero should get nerfed because the lower accuracy you have the lower damage you do?

That applies to moira too. If you land 80% of her primary your only doing 40 dps.

Difference is Moira is supposed to damage to fill up her heals. Wheras other supports players don’t necessary feel obligated to use their gun.

75

I mean dps ceilings are probably why you see such a rank variance in her as well.

Unlike mercy who needs to tap one button and spin in 360 degrees to use her unlimited healing, mercy can scales with better dps to hit +30% one shots and also top them off with 0 aim required healing.

Mercy does not cease to be able to heal even if the dps become 4x better at headshot accuracy because she also scales and may enable fight ending sojourn and others oneshots.

Meanwhile a moira has one static dps outlet that’s relatively harder to completely miss. There’s still tracking that seems 2x wider than a similar sym beam.

But that should mostly only apply to double jumping head crossing genjis and maybe the odd pharah.

So much of her resource bar is tied to her siphons that a 10% accuracy bronze dps who fails to do 30 effective dps dies to her, the immortal bronze rank 1v4 50 dps raid boss.

While a competent dps might just crit 3 bullets into her skull and gib her with a rocket before she might humanly react and realize she was gibbed in 0.2 a second.

While mercy and moiras numbers are both flat, moira is put into a rather odd feast or famine situation.

She can have more healing and damage on practice or paper, but she suffers from major diminishing returns the more competent the dps become at countering a flat 50 dps hero.

And as mentioned with proper aim, tracking, and ± headshots and above 10-50% accuracy, some heros can jump up from 30 dps bronze blunders to 100-300 dps shredders with much more respectable kill potential.

This is why it makes sense imo that you might see diminishing returns at higher ranks.

More competent dps makes over extending riskier and might deprive her healing bar faster while the team in turn also takes faster dmg. But if she can’t replenish it, shes a sitting duck with awful natural regen. And im not sure how to fix that tbh.

76

That all depends on rank.

Stats are from GM.

So your arguement is a hero should get nerfed because the lower accuracy you have the lower damage you do?

I never said anything about nerfing anyone, but let’s also not live in a fantasy world where heroes have anywhere near 100% accuracy. Even in Top 10 games, or OWL, forget GM, they just don’t. Like 50-60% accuracy is approaching the peak for most hitscans. The main reason Moira struggles in high elo isn’t her damage, but the combination of range (good players crit much more at shorter range,) damage and the random nature of damage orb which is extremely inconsistent against teams with good peel and awareness.

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77

Damage is all relevant. Safe damage with long range poke is more valuable on the top end. But more heroes are deadlier at much more ranges then Moira.

I never said that people have 100% accuracy either. But there are moments where you have 2-4 seconds off 100% accuracy or close enough to utilize that damage.

Moira doesn’t have that sort of lethality. So her damage stat can be high, it means nothing if you can’t confirm kills.

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78

I just take the first line because too many numbers here. The blaster does 20 damage, the DPS is 78 overall with reload, and you always have a 0.51 second recovery period before using weapon each time you switch. And most of all, you need to have a good aim on moving enemies, it’s just impossible to not miss shots. You need 5 headshots without miss to take down a 200 hp hero or 10 bodyshots.

With Moira, you can roughly aim and it does the same damage anyway, without realoading or switching weapon. Biotic grasp 50 dps + biotic orb 50 dps up to 200 dps, in 5 seconds you can do 450 dps (edited : I meant damage of course).

I will never do the same DPS and confirmed kills on a game with Mercy than with Moira, it’s impossible while healing.

noelshack com/2023-12-6-1679728773-moira.jpg

79

Damage is all relevant. Safe damage with long range poke is more valuable on the top end. But more heroes are deadlier at much more ranges then Moira.

You’re right it is relevant. I have zero disagreements with what you’re saying. My whole point is that numbers alone without context, framing, analyses, etc., are not a useful metric. Moreover to just say that Moira has the weakest DPS in the game is empirically false although you’re right having high damage per ten doesn’t necessarily translate to high-value damage.

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80

make her harder so she scales better
make her aim requirements a lot more strict for more potential damage.

make her into a beam hero instead of a soft lock

my idea is to make her beam wider as she loses her healing juice so in order for her to get that easier damage she would have had to heal a bunch first. since she would be doing more damage overall this would mean she could fight back with empty tanks but couldnt get there without spending the time to heal.
it encourages healing more while also incentivizing patience and more mechanically skilled players.

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