Hey all, hope I don’t get a lot of hate for this, but it’s mostly just out of curiosity.
Had a lot of great games in the last few days, was able to group up with friends get decent win streaks going, and suddenly in came to an abrupt end. Friend of mine who was finally one game away from getting diamond, and we got completely destroyed. Enemy team had an Ashe with a pocket Mercy that never missed a shot and completely obliterated our entire team. After that game, it was just horrible games from there on where we went against smurfs or really good coordinated players.
This isn’t a rant about smurfs or really good players, as I’m not taking anything away from them personally. It just had me wondering if this game force losses on players who are so close to getting out of the rank after being there for a long time.
Yes this is absolutely how the game works. No sarcasm. I’ve never been paired up with a worse/more extremely toxic bunch then when I’m about to tier up.
Yes its giving you a loss but its not FORCING it. Essentially the system is putting you in a more unwinnable situation. Normally the game would put you in a 50/50 chance to win, but if they see you are dominating those matches it will put you in games where its 30/70 in your enemies favor. So you’re not being FORCED to lose they are testing you. Its a poor system to be sure but its how it works.
No its not. As someone who often play on alt i would see this all the time. Its not how the system works, you will not get less good team mates or lesser chance to win because you dominate. If anything, my experience actualy shows opposite. But even that is most likely not true, its just a feeling.
No, theres no point to it. I dont want to blame your losses on you and or your friend but its entirely possible that you two maybe cracked under pressure after that first loss. Regardless of the fact that it’s just a number and a shiny emblem in a game, It can still mean a lot to someone. The fear of losing it can cause an unease that throws off your game. Just talking out my butt from personal experience though. Idk what your guy’s games have been like.
Not sure if kidding. They have outright said themselves this is how it works. The higher your rank and MMR the higher level opponents you get bracketed with. If it was truly a 50/50 chance you’d see many more people climbing. Its not. Unless you’re about to tell me its 100% perfect and will always make matches that are 50/50? In which case…well I can’t help you.
Again there is no forced losses but it absolutely tests if you belong in the rank you’re moving up in by pitting you against harder opponents. Why? Because your numebrs are also better.
No they didnt and i am not kidding. Show me where they said that because i was reading posts from devs few days ago and there is nothing what you claim about harder games when you outperform others in your elo.
Yes of course and your team mates would be higher just like enemy players.
Sure, but system is not doing that. Only minority of players actualy care to truly learn the game and improve. Or they are improving too slow to climb while everyobe else is too improving. Climbing is not that easy, its hard work and majority of player base is not willing to put a lot of energy into it.
System is trying to do that. But there is many factors which come in. System can even make perfectly balanced game based on everyone’s MMR and game will be one sides. Why? Because one team will have people who coordinated and comunicate snd other team will not.
What is 30/70 if not forced losing? Either its forced losing or 50/50 pick one. Dont say system will give you 30/70 while you say there is not “forced losing”
And again, there is not forced losing of any kind, if you perform better than people in your elo, system is actualy helping you to push you up by trying to catch your higher mmr. Mostly in ranks below diamond, but system is doing it even above in a more limited way.
Yes. The game doesn’t care about your SR until you hit diamond. Instead a hidden mechanics-based MMR score is used for matchmaking and if your SR is above the assigned MMR, then the game essentially forces you back until you get good enough.
This is easy to spot - you start playing against clearly superior SR players. Like two low plat DPS against a low plat and a diamond on the opposite team.
Winstreaks temporarily boost MMR higher so that you are gaining SR faster if you go on a huge winstreak. This is one system the game has to get people out of ranks they do not deserve, especially smurfs. Your boosted MMR will make you begin to face more difficult opponents, because the matchmaking system is trying to find out where you belong at all times. Essentially, you will face more difficult people if you win more, as you would think, but the losses arent technically forced. It cannot force a loss.
There are 2 things that determine how you are being matched. MMR and SR. Wherever your MMR is, the game will attempt to slowly move your SR towards that, whether that means giving you less SR for a win, or losing less from a loss, and vice versa. Lets say you start popping off in your games and you win a bunch because you’re doing well. Your MMR climbs wayyyy faster than your SR. So say youre at 2400 SR and MMR, and you pop off for 3 games, your MMR may go up to like 2700. The game is then attempting to determine if your SR deserves to be there, so you begin facing people of either similar MMR or high SR. That is what is forcing you to lose, you not being as good as your MMR is.
No, it does not. MMR is based on mechanics and your mechanics will not improve. So you’ll have your SR greater than your MMR. And as a result you’ll get a forced loss streak afterwards.
MMR algorithm also seems to be stupid as hell. For example, if you are forced to play your non-optimal hero in an attempt to drag your team to victory then you’re likely to lose more SR.
So to minimize your SR loss, just keep playing your main even if it’s not optimal.
You seem to be misinformed. MMR is based on your performance. If you get 3 gold medals in a game, the MMR system will be like, “holy crap dude, he is a lot better than his SR.” And of course vice versa. The higher your MMR is, the more SR gain you will get from wins, but also the more challenging games you get in.
What do you mean by that? Game care about your sr a lot in ranks below diamond, thats why your sr loss/gain can be affected a lot by your MMR.
Game does no such thing, its logical that you will lose more games if you dont belong in higher elo and you were pushed there by luck for example or by group.
I dont think so, my documented case of run on alt is talking agaisnt this. I had huge winning streak as i carried every game and when i won one of the last games, my huge sr gain stopped at 25, while several games before that i was gaining 77 SR for win. So no, win-streak do not boost MMR. If you have some kind of evidence or data to prove it, i would like too see that.
System already know where you belong, thats why you have MMR which is updated after every match. If your mmr is boosted, you had to play above your elo before and carry games with your skill. You will face better oponents yeah, but you will play with better team mates too.
Not true, winstreaks happen by luck or by carrying games. MMR is not doing that, luck and your skill is doing that.
Only MMR is used by matchmaker to determine how you will be matched. SR is just showed so people see easy representation of their place in ladder and not more complicated MMR. Team’ average SR for is often same which might make you think ng matchmaker is using that. But its not, majority of player base has basicly same mmr and sr.
Yes, it does work like that. If you smurf, its actualy very fast with sr gains even up to +150 sr.
Yes it can, but if you dont pop up in next game, it will go back down just saying.
Normaly not, players who belongs in their elos have this slow, smurf can have very high adjustments
Yeah i do agree with this. Sometimes you have to decide, will i keep playing my hero with insane stats and win like 50 sr and lose only 15 when i lose the game. Or will i pick my worse hero to have better chance for win but lower sr and mmr gain? Decisions, decisions
I took 3 of the important points here. These 3 points show that there can be large swings both directions that would cause players to be placed in matches they may not belong. Now you may think this isn’t happening to you, and you are probably right. It means its happening to your OPPONENTS and therefore its messing up your games as they climb or derank accordingly. You may play everyday but your opponents fall into one of these categories.
Again, not sure if kidding? You can do math right? 30/70 is not a 100% forced loss. Its 30% you’re gonna win, 70% you’re gonna lose. There’s a slim chance you could win. So I agree, no forced losses at all. Your chances of winning are low though
Any game is winnable because you have many factors which can go in. Even forced loss 0/100 is winnable if enemy players lose connection. Any chance lower than 50% is forcing you to lose more if system is doing it on purpose. But it still would be forced. If you say not, what about if game give you 1/99, is game forcing you lose or not?
As you can see here its how its done. Matchmaker is trying to give same chance to win to team, not to individuals by using players to give them lesser chance just because they played very well.
There is nothing what you claimed in those links. Nowhere is there said that you will get better enemies by over performing while your team mates will not be better too.
As you could see in quote text above game can truly give you 40/60 chance, but its not because you overperformed. Its because system didnt find perfect match for players who could have exact 50/50 chance. It could but then people would wait a lot longer for games.
I’ve played countless hours on both console and PC since season 2 of comp. My average SR has been anywhere from mid silver to low plat over a period of years. MY PC peak is 2920. Console 3020 (for exactly 1 game). Take that info as you will.
just saying.