I know this is definitely a point that splits the playerbase, but I was curious, so I wanted to make a discussion about it.
Do you prefer FPS games with lower or higher TtK, and do you think Overwatch’s TTK is too low, too high, or fine as-is?
Personally, I like medium-to-high TTK games. There’s definitely a rush and serious need for map awareness that comes with a low-TTK game, since someone can get the drop on you and two-tap you pretty much whenever, and I do respect the neutral/footsies game that comes with trying to get the upper hand to be the person that shoots first.
However, I think I moreso enjoy the midfight duels that come with a mid-high TTK, especially with a game like Overwatch. After all, there’s no real point in having cooldowns if you get immediately dropped before you can use them. I just prefer the mid-duel strategies to the pre-duel strategies.
I think it just comes down to personal preference and there’s no right or wrong answer to TTK. I do hope they don’t drop the TTK in OW2, since I think the higher TTK keeps it unique from other shooter games on the market, something I personally wouldn’t like to see thrown away just because “low TTK games sell better”.
I think having damage focused around the average health (200) would be something to try. With Tanks being reduced to one per team, I think it’s about time they try making damage in the game revolve around the 200-250 threshold, then the current 300-600 threshold.
I.e. moving Tank-busting abilities to Damage-dueling abilities.
Lower, but not instant. Too long and it becomes too difficult to actually establish kills
That sounds fair. Since Tanks are gonna see a health drop across the board since there’ll be less players shooting at them, that’d make sense to do. This might be because I main Ball and am used to large health pools, but sometimes it feels like the squishy TTK is a smidge lower than I’d like it to be, whereas the tank TTK is relatively OK (under the assumption you’re not just jumping in 1v6).
I don’t think they’re reducing base health on Tanks, from what we’ve seen, it’s only barriers so far.
Oh right, for some reason I mixed up the PvE 400HP Reinhardt as a PvP change.
Personally, I prefer a higher ttk. Because the team fight is fun. Running back from spawn or waiting for the other team to come back is boring. But I don’t have a problem with the current ttk mostly because it feels quite different in each match.
I think the TTK in OW is generally fine… the asymmetrical hitbox size/shape, the fluid movement and diversity of weapons means this game has a lot of intentional performance deviation… sometimes you nail someone and it feels great and sometimes it takes you 2 reloads.
most players would die less/slower if they moved better.
Higher TTK at launch was the MAIN reason I pre-ordered OW when I was 13. Every other game at the time was like call of duty. I was trash at FPS at the time. Quick assault rifle spray and you’re finished. I still prefer higher TTK compared to even but at the COD level now. Not valorant where you’re finished before you even blink.
I definitely prefer higher TTK rather than lower.
It’s not a matter of just preference but I think low TTK is never healthy, especially for a game that is meant to have MMO aspects and is a hero shooter.
Lower TTK causes a lack of diversity, little originality and gives the player less agency over strategy and etc. As at the end of the day, a low TTK-based game is about killing the fastest, which means there is less of a focus or emphasis on, ‘what-ifs’ or ‘what abouts’ in terms of effects, or playstyle. In a low TTK-based game - suddenly heroes like Pharah and Junkrat become less effective because they are physically SLOWER than someone like Widow or Hanzo - not even in terms of damage but how quickly the shot hits.
What is the point of adding more heroes, or more unique styles of play when you kill something in one or two shots? What diversity can you actually have in a game where you are trying to optimise how quickly a player can eliminate another?
I think longer TTK in OW is wonderful because it fixes a ton of issues in other games while introducing certain issues I think are quite fine to have.
- The idea of camping in OW is a non-issue. You do not have the fire power to straight up kill someone before they can react. Unless you are 2 specific units like hog or mccree. If someone less skilled than you gets the jump on you in OW, you can often fight your way out as you’ll have the time to react and get them. Or simply flat out deny ambush and reset.
- Its nearly impossible to carry. In some games, you might drop multiple people before even reloading. In OW, you are pretty much going to have to reload to KO someone. I enjoy that the game provides incentive to team up because every unit in OW is bulky and therefore difficult to take down usually. Teaming up means tag teaming the same unit to take them down quickly.
- Aggression. I feel more people can be aggressive in OW because they don’t have to be afraid of necessarily dying just for standing out in the open. They feel scared when health levels drop below a certain a value. Certain games it feels like a death sentence even move because some camper might just take you out for moving.
- Asymmetrical map design. I think by OW adopting a longer TTK fights can take place nearly anywhere. Terrain is important, but the fact you can have deployable cover and healing means you can take an entire fight in very open areas or very tight choke points.
- More variety of styles. Many styles of play exist in other FPS games, but they tend to be meme builds. The person going all in on a juggernaut for high health. A person running around knifing everyone in melee. Doing a shield build. The idea of running around in close range actually feels viable with various builds.
Longer TTK with less healing.
The ttk was somewhat fine until they buffed the hitscan for no reason instead of nerfing the healing.
In between. I don’t want to get 1 shot by everyone but I also don’t want to have to shoot at someone for a whole 60 seconds before they die
Normal
I prefer things to die fast in game, otherwise there is no play, but wasted effort. You want to be able to response in time - you need to be aware and foresee.
Do you have fun with the ebb and flow of the fight? Seeing the fight take place pushing and pulling as people fight over a given area. Knowing that your effort say caused the an enemy unit to try to back up to cover or being able to punish someone who might have been too aggressive who didn’t read they went in too deep? That’s my rationale for having fun even when nothing dies. I can still see my effects taking place and knowing I’m building up to an ultimate where stalemates tend to get broken.
I suport your point, but everything has borders right. I think recent Time to kill is point breaking for being way to high for squishies especially. Like why they lower Ashe damage down to 75? She lost all her kill combos, like hs+melee, hs+hipfire shot, Bob impact+bodyshot, all those were 200 damage. And those were combinations. Oh… oneshot via damage boost, okay, make a rule 15% damage boost max for ashe only… can’t see a problem. Looking next at widow. Oneshot one kill, but it has rediculous ammount of time to charge + falloff makes it even worse, so reward measured with effort is way less than some hog player gets, just using hook in general direction + shooting the same way and getting a free kill with almost no effort. I think TTK could be considered as okaaay, but just in case all heroes has the same effort to put on the table to achieve kills, you know what I mean? Like moira using her orb+rightclick, can kill you way faster than actual hitscan. So, I think TTK should be measured of effort it takes. That way I wish they revert widow nerfs, let her hp be 175, but let the hero be lethal. Revert Ashe damage, so that cowgirl could shine solo, be independent of mercy and do not suffer of doing trash damage just charging enemy supports, who already charge their ults way faster than dps. Increase hanzo projectile speed cause now he looks like randomely oneshotting ppl, make it either consistent or get rid of this faster version of junkrat… Why baptiste is still a better soldier, having 24 dmg per bullet and have 45 bullets? Increase soldier damage up to 200 dps instead of 180 then… why junk’s concussive makes 120 damage when he has 2 of them, which is thrown in general direction can make a kill by itself? That here deserves higher time to kill instead. That is my thoughts. If effort is higher - TTK should be lower, and vice versa.
In 5v5, i expect tanks to be able to stand out in the open without dying in 3 seconds while NOT using ur abilities.
You shouldn’t die in less time than you have to get to cover. It’s absurd.
I’ve peeked on roadhog only to die instantly. 600 hp, gone before I could get back to cover.
You wot m8.
I mean I think your expectations are skewed. You do not die very fast unless your being focus fired from multiple units which is how it should be. You should die instantly if you are focused fired from like 2 DPS and a tank even as a tank.
In the 1v1 situation no unit will be able to shred roadhog before he gets to cover. You need a ton of check boxes to align for that to happen.