It depends on the projectile. At some ranges at arrow will be absolutely useless, but a rocket that only explodes on impact will do the same damage if it hits someone 30m away as 30km away.
Either way, it doesn’t really matter since this is OW and not real life.
Aiming projectiles properly is very skillful. Spam is an unfortunate consequence. If hitscan had no fall off, they’d be too safe as they could just gun you down from across the map. However, at those same ranges many projectiles give you plenty of time to walk out of the way, which you can’t do with hitscan.
Ok, you want realism. Fine, hitscan doesn’t exist in reality. So eliminate that and make everything projectile with accurate numbers of bullet velocity. Now try to hit a shot realistically from the hip with a revolver from 40 meters. Want realism, McCree would miss almost every shot regardless of what your crosshair is aligned upon. Now more realism, and shot will incapacitate or kill depending on where it lands and dead people don’t get reborn in some magic spawn room. Kill 6 players before your 6 teammates are dead, match over you win. Sounds like a great game.
Or would you rather them make unrealistic rules for gameplay purposes because it’s a game?
By your facetious logic why is everything else grounded in some form of reality in the game? Why does everyone walk, why don’t we fly? Walking is dumb. Why is jumping limited to about what you could expect from a person IRL? Why do heroes even die? Wlaking back from spawn to the action is trash…
Stop the disingenuous BS “But this isn’t reality” argument to justify game decisions when so much of the game design IS based on reality.
So you personally didnt, and I see that doesnt take in consideration that again, projectile users PREDICT movement so they dont shoot where the person is, but most likely where the enemy is going to be or mid point (again, this is how reality works, in REAL scenarios).
Like I said above, that is on a perfect situation, where the person is on a 1v1, nothing else is happening, the projectile user is NOT predicting and both of them are in a 100% perfect position where they can dodge/shoot at will.
Applications of those theoretical ranges in reality = Near to none.
But thanks tho.
Also even with those very very very generous calculations, Hanzo and Mei are basically a hitscan on 30mt and below
You did though.
Now you are backpedaling and using accurate-ish information because you got called out when you brutally overexaggerated and said people had to be “blind or disabled” to not be able to dodge “some” (purposefully being grey and inaccurate for dramatization) projectiles.
She doesnt, she has splash damage and can spam a choke.
Also she shouldnt be “1v1” people at 30mt with orbs anyway so using that situation as an example of “how bad Projectiles have it” is stupid. Like me using Soldier vs a dude that is 55mt away.
The problem comes when the fall off damage STARTS to happen and that is on 20-30mt range. If a non stupid projectile user starts the fight at 35-40, the damage drops SEVERELY for the hitscan and the consequences or adjustments for the projectile user are near to none. Again, this is reality.
IDK if you know what “recoil” is buddy, but the weapon goes up consistently and if the enemy again, is not a bot, will ADcrouch spam and that will make you miss quite a lot of bullets. Again, lets not guess now all soldiers across all ranks have at least 75% accuracy, ok?
Not much longer, compared with the penalty and way way slower fire rate (again you conveniently forget things). They still have to be pixel perfect, projectile users dont.
Calcs are “fine”, but not really applicable outside FFA or 1v1 scenarios.
Again, you seem to be forgetting the realistic situations here pal. “Dodgeable” doesnt mean “the average player will dodge it 100% of the times”. Not even close
Dude, have you played this game?
How many times do you see “shoulder headshots” from Soldier or Mcree? How many times do you see them from Hanzo, Mei and Zen?
Also Junk and Pharah have a very generous SPLASH damage so even if its not a direct hit, its damage and slow pushback. Projectile heroes are NOT suffering, Echo exists and let me tell you if you think she is not as busted as ANY hitscan (except Widow), you have a different perspective of “reality”.
Because the fall off makes sense from a balancing standpoint even not a reality standpoint. Even walking doesn’t make sense in this game because everyone walks at the same speed regardless of caring factors that would influence speed. Same with jumping.
I love it when people use lo. This is a
game set in the 2060s with talking robots, flying cars, a time travelling lesbian, a woman with a slowed heartbeat, an angel suit that heals with nanobots, magical dragons and more. Is this really where you wanna apply “real life” logic?
Because their projectiles don’t hit instantly and at long distances you have PLENTY of time to avoid them.
Except at a large distance you’d BE LUCKY AF to land 5 projectiles in a row lmao. That’s why they do more.
McCree CAN hit 5 shots in a row at that distance. Projectiles it’s probably impossible in a normal game.
Way to completely miss the point. Did you even see the gif? Do you fully comprehend the big picture? IF someone was actually skilled enough to manage to hit 5 shots on a clump of tiny pixels as Cree from that far away, THAT’S 110 DAMAGE.
WOW
And how many times does Hanzo have to hit body shots for a kill? TWO.
The same amount that he needs to kill a 200 hp hero if they were 5 feet in front of him.
BUT OMG IT TAKES SO MUCH MROE SKILL TO HIT A HANZO ARROW BEYOND 50 METERS WAH WAH WAH HERPA DERP.
Ok kids, keep kidding yourselves any of your BS gradeschool level reasonings as to how this is fair are anything but weak whiney nonsense because you just can’t stand hitscan and are totally fine with Hanzo being 5x the danger of Cree post 50 meters simply because Hanzo doesn’t have the Hitscan label.
If you think a skilled Hanzo player has difficulty hitting shots you’re simply dumb, there’s no nice way to put it.
I think a Skilled Hanzo player would in fact have trouble hitting shots at 50m because the aim has to account for where the enemy would be in the next 0.5s at such a range.
If the enemy turned around, stopped moving or used any ability that slightly moves them, you miss.
… that is my reddit user and I did do the math on that…
as said to OP earlier:
and the whole point of the math in that post was to show at what theoretical point does prediction can’t really matter much as the enemy would have enough leniency to react to the shot retroactively. i.e. the degree of how inherently inconsistent the projectiles at the design and balance numbers are.
like you can have the best prediction in the world, but if the projectile is slow enough and the target is far enough that the target can deterministically move out of the trajectory because it takes so long to reach them, it doesn’t matter how well aimed or how much prediction went into that shot, it landing simply all that much up to you.
and again, there’s the inherently variability before that point:
> you: you’re exaggerating by saying some projectiles are hugely inconsistent that the target needs to be blind or disabled to dodge and thus saying hitscans are insanely accurate
> me: I am slightly exaggerating and to show that I’m only slightly exaggerate, explain how does a slow projectile like sym’s land in decently long and common range?
> you: you don’t. just spam and pray
oh an saying 1 thing is more inconsistent than the other doesn’t imply that the other is hugely consistent.
you:
>it’s stupid that projectiles don’t have falloff damage and that they deal more damage per shot. they should be treated the same as hitscan
>you shouldn’t use projectiles like hitscan and only use them in shorter ranges because of how inconsistent they are the further away the target is
and slower projectiles are a lot more inconsistent even before that 30m mark e.g.
amazing how you failed to see the point which was that the recoil is there to compensate the 0 spread, a characteristic that make a weapon fire more consistent in landing hits overall.
ashe gets an extra 10m min (min because ashe has spread unscoped) and widow gets an extra 50m min (min again because spread in unscoped fire).
firerate doesn’t change how consistent any particular shot is, only on an aggregated level (cause more trials fitted into a period of time).
instead projectiles have to deal with variability that they don’t have direct inputs over and it widens depending on range…
ok in that zen example there, do you think zen orb sizes are like >=1m in diameter for that variability (0.5s which leads to a possible approx 2.75m of target movement variability) to not matter?
splash damage is portion of the full damage and has radial fall-off and not every splash has pushback. like you simply cannot equate dealing only splash damage with landing directs with hitscan or landing directs with projectiles that actually care about directs. what are you on about?
do you have trouble reading or focusing on the topic at hand? because this whole thread is talking about why projectiles don’t have falloff and generally higher damage numbers per shot.
It’s plain and simple, hitscan is too consistent at dealing damage. Falloff is the only real way to remove some of its consistency without adjusting the raw damage numbers or introducing flinch mechanics.
Projectiles are intrinsically inconsistent, so it’s only natural for them to have no falloff.
No it’s not, it’s a complete fallacy that skilled Hanzo players can’t hit shots at various ranges as well as a skilled hitscan, and that makes Hanzo realistically more lethal than Cree vs most other heroes since Hanzo only needs 2 max power body shots at any range to kill a 200 HP hero. He is currently absolutely more deadly than Cree in nearly any situation. The only thing Cree has going for him over a Hanzo pick is flash/rightclick. But of course average base level thinking players who can’t see more than 2 feet in front of them will continue to buy into this hitscan = overpowered godlike BS.
Go on overbuff and look at the comp weapon accuracy stats for the top Hanzo players vs. the top Widowmaker, McCree and Ashe players. You’ll notice that on average, The hitscans have at least 10% higher weapon accuracy which, considering the number of shots fired per game, is actually a very significant amount.
Even though Hanzo has a high projectile speed, he is still objectively less accurate than a hitscan hero over long range. With a hitscan, if your crosshair is on the target and there are no obstructions between you and the target, it is a guaranteed hit (not accounting for netcode issues and no-regs). With projectiles, there is ALWAYS an element of uncertainty involved in longer range shots. Furthermore, Hanzo’s projectiles have an arc, so it is not just a matter of judging the speed of the projectile, but also the trajectory.
If projectiles had damage falloff, then it would be extremely punishing to land any long range shots at all, since it happens less than hitscan, and you wouldn’t be getting much reward for landing the unlikely long range shot.
I mean I fully understood his point but yeah it’s obvious that Projectile characters cannot compete as is vs Hitscan at long ranges toe to toe and must seek cover if they do indeed find themselves in such a situation. Unless they ofc have taken said Hitscan by complete surprise and land a few shots early.
By their very nature projectiles are harder to get direct hits with than hitscan.
Depending on the speed, distance, and size of the projectile there is an additional layer of difficulty. Hitscan must simple aim at the enemy and shoot. Landing a projectile involves prediction because there’s an amount of time between shooting and your projectile landing during which the enemy might have moved.
You can argue that you don’t think the difficulty gap is big enough to matter, but you can’t deny that that it exists.
Pharah and Junkrat are the classic examples of needing to predict to land your shots. Their explosion radius is supposed to give them some leniency because hitting direct shots is very difficult for them.
