it actually is how it would work in real life for some of of the examples. Bullets do less damage at longer ranges, while a rocket or a grenade does the same damage regardless of range it was launched at.
The problem is, it isn’t that difficult to land long range shots with hitscan classes. That’s why widowmaker has to charge their shot. People that can aim well would completely dominate as hitscan if there was no damage falloff. While no matter how well your aim is, at long range you can’t land a bunch of shots in a row as a pharah or junkrat, because players can see the projectiles coming. Even with Hanzo or Mei; it requires a good deal of prediction and even the strongest players will frequently miss.
The more one plays Hanzo this “good deal” becomes nearly nothing, I mean just look at Arrge as an example, if you think he’s having trouble hitting moving targets at 50m I have news for you.
Where are you getting this from? OWL?
Dude at 50mt, the targets are NOT big at all, and let me remind you that OW doesnt have accel in movement, so ADcrouch spam at those distances makes really hard to nail shots with hitscans too.
Again, you may say its harder on projectiles, but saying “its not that difficult” is simply wrong.
PS: Projectiles have also way way way way bigger hitbox. Hitscans have to be pixel perfect.
emphasis on the SOME. like the context is literally in the same post and 1 line above.
for 50m the leniency (time for targets to react) are the following:
sym orbs, zarya m2, rein firestrike and junkrat bombs (assuming bombs even make it that far) give 2s (literally TTK of a lot of squishies)
mercy and dva pistols and sigma spheres give 1s
pharah rockets give about 1.43s
genji shurikens give about 0.83s
for quite a lot of projectiles (the slow ones), it’s legit impossible for one’s aim to compensate it because again: if you see an enemy projectile slowly coming your way from afar, do you go “ooo shiny I wanna eat it” or “ok I let’s just side step that and move on”?
and this effect is depending on range. e.g. even for fast projectiles, if you’re far enough, you’ll reach the point where you can do the above phenomenon not to mention how unreliability that I’ve been pointing to kicks in waaay before this point.
there’s no reasonable way for you to even make a mechanic that somehow is able to go “oh you can aim so shift damage values to be lower in x range” esp when for a lot of the slower moving projectiles, they’re so slow that the range where they’re dodgeable is already short to begin with (i.e. their effective range is short).
lmao, at first I thought you were being sarcastic. at 50m players are plenty big enough to be easy hitscan shots. You think player movement makes hitscan hard at 50; try landing projectiles at that range. And at 50 meters, the larger projectile might account for like 1 pixel extra room and you claim it is way way way bigger. Someone is just a butthurt hitscan dps because you can’t easily dominate at range anymore.
the edge of the hitbox for hitscan vs projectile at range https: //imgur. com/YPjqHIN https: //imgur. com/9XtSnk9oh, yeah, such a huge hitbox difference at range. Also, lol, oh yeah, so tiny at 50m… lmao…
You cant be going HARDCORE on a statement full of exaggerations like “blind or disabled” and then claim that you are ONLY saying it for “some” projectiles. Thats not how standards work mate.
Now, look at the rest of the speeds:
Zen 90mt/sec
Hanzo 110mt/sec full charge
Mei 120mt/sec
Sigma 50mt/sec
Lucio 50mt/sec
Now lets look at the DAMAGE per bullet/orb/whatever … do you need to do that math? Because spoiler alert: Hitscans lose like HARD.
Again, lets not forget either:
The average OW player does NOT have insane reflexes to consistently dodge 90mt/sec+ projectiles and the average OW player does NOT have like 75% accuracy with hitscans on targets on 50mt, lets not be hardcore dishonest and pretend that, shall we?
Cool
I do that all the time buddy, I am a Pharah/Junk/Sym user on my main.
Someone is just not realistic with standards and expectations and that someone is not me. Take a guess
well, as someone that has played a lot of Bap. It is far easier to land hitscan hits on enemies trying to avoid me shooting them at long range than to land direct hits on teammates begging to be healed, with my healing nade at range.
all projectiles will have a point where targets can retroactively dodge them. except for some of them, namely the slower ones (e.g. sym orbs, junkrat bombs, etc.), that point is much sooner to the point where you realistically will hit that point often, whereas others like hanzo or so, that point realistically isn’t going to occur often.
like it’s simple math to work out how much time a target has to dodge a projectile at a given range.
if they can see it when it was fired and they’re far enough (like idk, 90m+), they will be at the point where average OW player would have the reflexes to do so. Would that situation realistically happen? no. But as said above, this point is a lot shorter for various other projectiles.
not to mention even before that “90m+” point of being reasonable to reflexively dodge, projectiles, there’s still inherent variability of the enemy strafing/movement that is worse than hitscans.
e.g. for zen’s 90m/s projectiles, even if the target is say 45m away —> 0.5s before the projectile reaches the target, in that 0.5s there’s going to be like about 2.75m-ish worth of movement (could end up 2.75m away from start, could end up exactly in the same place, wherever; could be more or less depending on move speed and movement abilities) that could generally be done by the target completely outside of the control of the zen which could lead to the shot not landing.
in the hitscan scenario, this source of error/variability doesn’t exist as where you point is where the shot goes instantly without travel time.
again, how hitscans are inherently more consistent is that it has less sources or error/variability. hence why hitscans have falloff whereas most projectiles don’t esp given how the extra variability on projectiles negatively scale with longer range (i.e. they already have something else that acts as “falloff”).
yet you completely ignore how inherently consistent some shots are or even firerate
It just simply hardcore dishonest because using that “math” with the wrong scenario, is basically describing a “dream”.
In reality, people using projectiles DO predict movement of the enemy, since they cant move in 340958049586 directions and at certain ranges (30mt for example , where hitscans do full damage), dodging a projectile is almost impossible. Do your math and take the average reflexes for a gamer (200ms) and you will see that.
Again, lets not pretend hitscans have an insane accuracy and projectile players are “poor bois that cant predict” at all , ok?
Again, this is not a 1v1 where nothing is happening in the game, where there are no CDS, people closing the gap, people having ZERO errors in positioning etc etc.
You literally said some people need to be “blind or disabled” to not be able to dodge “some” shots and that is a huge overexaggeration and full of inaccuracies … NOW you want to get into math and precise, to the nanosecond calculations?
Cmon now …
yet you completely ignore that soldier for example has recoil
yet you completely ignore that ADS Ashe/Widow moves way slower
yet you completely ignore that hitscan has to be pixel perfect and projectiles have a very generous hitbox
We all “conveniently forget” things here mate, some more than others apparently.
Again, dont use skewed up unrealistic scenarios to paint a picture and then act like hitscans are just “omegalul click heads”, super easy to get 75% accuracy while shooting from 50mt.
you can exaggerate the difficulties of hitscan all you want. I play Baptist. Hitscanning enemies at range is a hundred times easier than direct hit healing nades at range. Hitscan is easy sauce and requires next to no skill.
granted the assumptions were with 0.25s reaction time (tho you can take the extra 0.05s as latency I suppose; regardless calcs are done with more leniency in regards to reaction times) and I didn’t include target hitbox into account because whose hitbox should be considered as standard and what’s the dimensions of that (esp since hitboxes of a hero isn’t 1 single box but rather multiple boxes to get the silhouette of the hero).
and yes, for arced projectiles, the dodgeable ranges should be lower because arc but I’m not going to reverse engineer the ODEs to work out that.
and for most projectiles, direct dodgeable range is the column that’s important (as most projectiles care about direct shots).
no-one’s pretending that they do, but it’s simply an objective fact that projectiles have more sources of variability leading to them being more inconsistent inherently. and that variability also scales poorly with longer range.
ok explain to me under what circumstances a sym orb can land a direct hit in an open area whereby the target is say >=30m away (i.e. whereby the target has >=1.2s to move out of the way)?
like sure, what I said was an exaggeration, but it really isn’t all that huge of an exageration depending on the circumstances.
and he has higher firerate with literally 0 spread…
and they get longer effective range (well longer fall-off start) for that with 0 spread…
see reddit thread above for calcs
seems like you’re the one forgetting things here
also again:
like if you think that’s negligible due to projectile hitbox size, then I want to ask, how big do you think projectile hitbox sizes are?
The reason is that hitting a projectile shot at great distances is usually very difficult and inconsistent. Hitscans get the falloff because they are more consistent, which means that you’ll be able to land your shots consistently if you’re good enough. However, projectiles don’t get the falloff because the chance a player will actually hit the shot at such a range is much less probable.
Have you ever taken a physics class? Whats easier to dodge, a car at a velocity of a bullet or a car going at the velocity of an icicle. I think an icicle is slower right, so if its slower and not instant then you have more TIME to react to it and get out of its way right? Now apply that to ow, a bullet in ow cannot be dodged as it is instant, ie infinitely greater than the speed of light, compared to an icycle which can be dodged because it has travel time.
Lets say you are sitting 100 meters away from a cree and a mei and both shoot pinpoint on the center of your body while you are walking in any direction that is not in a straight line facing to or away from your shooters, the hitscan bullet cant be dodged because instant cannot be dodged, but the projectile will be dodged because it takes time to travel to you.
I tried to make it as simple as it could be, if you still dont understand then idk what to say, you need to attend a physics class.
Wait never mind, i saw ur profile ur gold, struggling on hitscan in gold/plat and then complaining that hitscan is weaker at long range is idiotic and completely false.
Just press W. Ta-da, now you don’t have to deal with the falloff penalty. It’s almost as if Blizzard wants to force all DPS heroes to have to play in ranges where other people can actually threaten them.
