Damage Creep is NOT a Problem [for the Devs]

General Discussion
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Yes? and maybe.

It is a problem if you see the game as something where it is fair for every player, rather than fair for each team.

It is a problem if you see the game as something where you want all players to have an enjoyable game, rather than the biggest crowd in it.

But, is that a problem “for the devs?”, and for overwatch itself?

I for one think it sucks SUPER hard. But N7Warrior is 100% right, it isn’t a issue for the devs or for the teams. It suck for some of the players, and it shouldn’t have to.

It is what I would call bad design, but, the dev’s are not failing in what they are balancing for, It is that we don’t agree in what they should be balancing for.

It was like release Brig, there is a lot of people saying they screwed up, but, their goal was to end Dive, and she 100% did that. They were upset because they they had different goals from the Dev team at the time.

It is a problem for N7Warrior, It is a problem for me, it is a problem for you, but that doesn’t mean it is a problem as SUCH for overwatch.

It doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck for us, but that isn’t their target.

Wars suck pretty hard, but the gun makers don’t care that it sucks, they are not trying to make war fair. Quite the reverse.

You CAN have games where you give up on balancing certain aspects, while I think that is awful, it doesn’t stop them doing it, nor is it a problem, for the devs

Or even for most of the player base. We have more DPS in the game than Tanks / Supports (and I’m one of them, but, it also hurts my supporty soul to see it)

2 Likes
22

Wasn’t that the idea from the get go - that blizzard’s method of “balancing” was to be just a “flavor of the month” change forever and ever instead of the literal meaning of “balance” once and for all? the meta forms around those periodic monthly or so hero changes. Sometimes their choice of changes are bad and prolong a boring meta, and other times their changes are good and start a new meta. In either case it seems blizzard has no intention to allow any meta to stay meta for too long so as to reduce stagnation.

I skimmed through the opening post looking for any reasoning behind “damage creep” and i didn’t find any. Are you sure we’re talking about the same thing? Isn’t damage creep just a damage-version of power creep? the notion that new heroes (in this case dps) are overall significantly better than old(er) heroes? How is the fact that Ashe is in every game while Soldier is non-existent “NOT a Problem”?

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It was not. And they stated as such before, And announced when they gave up.

Definitely not.

Imo damage creep is about damage. For any hero.

Well, imo because soldier isn’t pretty. And therefore isn’t part of the goal.

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Have to make a problem so that Overwatch 2 can come out with all the balance patches being the solution.

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They have enough that they shouldn’t be going out to make more. They don’t have to.

2 Likes
26

i disagree that there are only 5 or 6 dps options viable… unless you’re in OWL

every single dps except bastion has one tricks in t500, all dps except sombra and bastion have one tricks at 4500. That’s healthier dps balance than we have probably ever had in history. The pressure to only use within 6 dps is mostly a community problem because on ladder actually they are all very viable, clearly

So no, its not a matter of pick echo ashe tracer widow genji cree or lose, you can pick sym and only ever sym nd get 4500, you can pick mei and only ever mei and get 4500,

There are junkrat and pharah one tricks 4600+ right now.

Balance is actually really good on ladder right now, the problem is the community have a terrible perception of the real state of balance and are super toxic about how they police and enforce the meta they hate

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I mean we CAN play whoever we want, but if we want to win games regularly options are becoming very limited. That’s because most of the heroes the general population wants to play aren’t watchable for OWL ergo they get trashed while the favorites get propped up artificially. The game is being balanced on viewer metrics and not the people actually playing the game, we’re just along for the ride till we get tired of it.

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Well…imo…artificially getting certain heroes up is the point.

Moreover, I think it’s also about getting certain heroes and more specifically, roles, out of being top picks.

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Like who? Who has been trashed?

How can you not win games regularly but consistently be 4650 one tricking pharah, or junkrat?

To sustain those elos you need 60-70% wr because of the sr gain/penalty ratio.

The only dps that you could argue have been dumpstered in the past 9 months are sym in october and mei in feb, and both have several one tricks who frequently crush OWL stacks on ladder. Whats good?

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Outliers do not account for the general populous. That’s why they are called outliers. The better question is how many of the heroes at that rank are the META picks based on current balance and how frequently are they seen?

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far less than there has been in OW history, at least the past month or so. With genji things might change

Theyre not outliers, theyre people that have the exact same tools to work with as you and I, they just know how to use them to win very very often against the best players in the game. Thats not a weakness in the heros kit, thats a weakness in our ability to use them

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You don’t get it. A handful of Pharah and Junkrat players doesn’t excuse that most of the players at that rank are regularly playing heroes that are too good not to use at that rank. I don’t care that one dude got to top 500 using Roadhog when 100 of their peers did so because they used Rein. Proper balance would mean a somewhat even distribution of ALL 8 TANKS in top 500. Same with DPS, 1 or 2 Pharahs/Junkrats doesn’t excuse the overwhelming majority being Widow/Mcree/Genji or whoever is too strong in the next “balance” patch. Proper balance would mean you would see more Pharahs, Junkrats, and ALL 17 DPS heroes having a fairly even presence in high ranks.

2 Likes
33

Let me stop playing tank and go pure dps then…

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There is a difference between most people being able to do this, and a few EXTREMELY good people being able to do a thing.

I’m sure that there exists someone who can make REALLY good paintings using doornails… the fact someone can doesn’t make doornails particularly good paint brushes.

People use better tools when they have them on hand, unless they are going out to make a point.

1 Like
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I suggest you do if that’s what you want!

Because it helps move the needle in who you pick away from tank.

More specifically, I suggest genji and tracer and encouraging dive with your allies

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Or Ana, so there will be the dive target.

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Unless he’s a good Ana.

Ana needs to lose.

I totally think blizzard needs to look at Ana heals if they want dive back.

Maybe 65 heals and beef back up her dmg? Dmg wasn’t an issue for dive so… Idk.

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this was my reply

agree

im not saying that certain heroes arent stronger than others, that they c ant get more value more easily than others. I AGREE THAT THERE ARE OP AND OVERTURNED DPS.

as above, my point is that you’re not limited to those 5 or 6 unless youre OWL. You can be extremely successful playing anything that isn’t bastion or sombra if you’re good enough.

Completely agree, all I said was that there is way more variety in viable dps options than the community generally believes, and the dps meta is not that oppressive right now, or at least hasnt been the past month

I agree with most of what you’re points are just that one, that’s why i only disagreed with that one in my og reply

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Oh no… She is 100% needed for dive. Here is the thing.

You need SOMEONE who can’t move, who is the win condition.

Zen was that for classic dive. Ana is who they are setting up now.

The reason for it is… who is dive going to dive ON? No dive target, no dive, because without a diveable win condition, there is no reason to dive at all.

You need SOMETHING which is diveable which is so strong, you can’t win with other comps without them.

Dive needs a target, or it never happens. Zen is in a super sorry state, so, it has to be Ana.

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The problem is that the current balance philosophy, or lack of one, is severely limiting what the rest of us can play and still enjoy the game especially from a DPS perspective. You can play what you want at all ranks sure, but if someone brings out a Genji right now you better hope your DPS is a better Genji or be prepared to have the whole team counter pick just him.