You’re removing the difference between a skilled and unskilled player assuming they are both damage boosted. It’s objectively easier to hit a body shot than a headshot. Skilled players hit more headshots than non-skilled players. Thus removing the damage from headshots, should the player be damage boosted, makes it so there is little if any difference between a skilled and unskilled player mechanically speaking. That’s an issue due to the nature of the game being a competitive fps with a skill rating (sr) system.
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If they are both damage boosted, or both not damage boosted. It’s really no difference. Since the skill doesn’t come from the damage boost.
If anything, it’s removing a crutch for sniper players who aren’t as good, to win out over better sniper players, because they have a Mercy/Zen pocket.
If you can’t damage boost snipers, then the better sniper player wins.
And as I’ve said multiple times - hell, I’ve even told you that I’ve told you multiple times… multiple times - that is fine. I am not opposing that.
Because you’re only making it more difficult for skillful players. Poor players who do not hit headshots often, but get a damage boost, still get all the value after your change as before it. Players who hit headshots consistently and get a damage boost, will now do much less damage after the nerf. Thus, skilled players’ value brought down to be a little closer to less skilled player.
Yeah, bro, that ain’t at all my argument. Now even close. At no point did I say anything even remotely synonymous with what you’ve just pulled outta the ether. Madness. Again, I urge you to read my posts.
Let me spell it out for you nice and clearly, so you can stop with the nonsense.
Pre your change:
Good sniper with a damage boost. High value
Bad sniper with a damage boost. Low value.
Post your change:
Good sniper with damage boost. Value reduced. Value is only medium now.
Bad sniper with damage boost. Value unaffected. Value is still low.
With your change, you have reduced the amount of value earned by improving your mechanical skill. You have done this for all damage boosting abilities, and you have done this for every character that can hit headshots.
It’s a simply nonsensical change.
Hopefully, at last, you will understand my point and you can stop with the outlandish strawman arguments.
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Again, you’re acting like damage boosting makes a sniper more skillful.
Now, Value, that’s different. The impact is reduced. Sure, but that’s a separate concept from the player skill.
A damage boosted sniper getting more value. Sure. But the thing is, the extra value basically makes it so a less skillful sniper can get equal value to a better sniper who isn’t damage boosted.
Additionally, the sniper is already getting a dramatic value increase, just by virtue of there being less barriers to block their shots. You have to reduce their peak value, in response to that.
You can’t have a situation where snipers are getting “Way too much Value” over other DPS.
Dude, you’re literally creating arguments that were never there in the first place to try to “disprove” what they’re saying. They’ve made their side very, very clear, you’re just regurgitating the same lines.
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I believe he’s equivocating increased player value, with increased player skill.
Which is a logical fallacy.
Who cares if it’s clear, if it’s false?
You were saying that headshots should be counted as damage boosted and that damage boosts shouldn’t stack. Therefore it does matter. The skill comes from headshots. But if a guy who can hit headshots and a guy who can’t both get damage boosted, they end up doing the same damage based on what you said. Therefore the more skilled individual loses value that should have given him the advantage over the other guy who is less skilled.
It’s literally the exact opposite. It gives worse players a crutch while crippling the better players.
How do you make it so that damage boosts aren’t useless then. Nano, mercy, zen, etc. would all lose their usefulness and value.
I’m so confused. What do you want to do with crits and dmg boost.
Say a mercy is pocketing a widow and widow headshots a hog. Give me a step by step of what’s going on in your mind.
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TL;DR, in ways you’ll understand: punishing players for landing headshots while damage-boosted won’t raise TTK, it’ll lower it because they’ll do the same damage on a bodyshot - which are easier shots to land - which kills your theory of raising TTK with it.
Who cares if it’s false? They’ve given you reasons why that wouldn’t work, what that would do to the characters and people actually good at them, and you’re just repeating the same 2 lines. Regardless of clarity or accuracy, you’re putting words in their mouth.
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It’s not “landing headshots”.
It’s “landing damage boosted headshots”.
That’s an extremely important distinction.
Irrelevant. A distinction that doesn’t matter, and makes no difference to my point.
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The bottomline is that, with greatly reduced barriers in the game, the entire game would boil down to “which team has the better sniper”, and the meta would basically require perma-damageboosting your sniper or snipers.
And they would need to lower the maximum value snipers can get, to avoid making all other forms of DPS heroes irrelevant.
No, I’m really, really not. At all. I have no idea how you’re coming to that conclusion. I’m talking about a player hitting lots of headshots vs a player hitting few headshots. That has nothing to do with damage boosts and is an expression of skill.
I have been talking about value this entire time. Don’t pretend I’ve randomly stumbled onto it all of a sudden.
Player skill and value should be closely linked. The greater the player skill, the higher the value. Your change impedes this buy reducing the increase in value that headshots bring to a damage boosted sniper.
Well, obviously, because there are two people committed to the value. So, it’s not 1 person getting the value it’s 2. That’s how the game should work. 2 people up at the sniper post has it’s weaknesses because it means the rest of the team is figting 4v5 on point.
The increase in value from fewer barriers applies across the board to all snipers. Your change only applies to skillful snipers that land lots of headshots.
Let me give you another example.
There once was a Hanzo main called Bob (not to be confused with Ashe’s BOB). He was a Silver sniper.
In every 20 shots he gets 2 headshots, 10 body shots and 8 misses. He is damage boosted by a Mercy all game, every game. For the 2 headshots, each does 325 damage on current build and his 10 body shots do 162.5 each. So, in those 20 shots, he does 2275 damage.
With your build, he would do a little less, as each headshot will only do 250, so he loses 150 damage, for a total of 2125.
Bob improves over the course of the year and now he’s a mid Master Hanzo main, still getting a damage boost every game.
Now, in 20 shots he get 17 head shots, 2 body shots and 1 miss.
Lets look at live build. 17 x 325 and 2 x 162.5 = 5850.
On your build, that’s 17 x 250 and 2 x 162.5 = 4575.
So, between the Silver and Masters play Bob has got a lot more skilled. On live build all of this extra skill earns him 3575 extra damage. That’s a lot of value. On your build, the exact same amount of skill only earns him 2450 extra damage. That’s a lot less. So, the same amount of skill increase, earns him much less value. Thus, you are punishing skillful players who are able to hit a lot of headshots by lowering their value a lot, but the value of less skillful players who mostly hit body shots is almost unchanged.
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No one is arguing this. What we’re saying is your solution to that problem sucks and is totally devoid of logic.
How exactly?
The goal here is to give heroes like Soldier a fighting chance against having equal value to a Widowmaker.
If that’s basically impossible, because snipers just get extreme value, then that’s bad for the “Competitive Variety” of hero choices.
I think it could be interesting, we all ready have different types of damage that behaves in different ways, being blocked by different abilities etc. Having an armor type would allow for the creating of some new characters that are completely different, you could for example have a small tank with 2-300hp, weak against high rate of fire weapons but still able to walk point without instantly getting deleted.
Shields kinda work that way all ready, sigma can have 30hp on his shield but it will still completely block a fully charged widow shot. This mechanic could also be used in some new designs. Instead of having one shield with several hundred HP you have an ability with like 6 shields with 30hp each, very easy for a char like soldier to break, not so easy for a phara etc.
Still you refuse to understand. Your goal is fine, your attempt at a solution is not. There is a very real possibility Snipers will be the shining star of OW2 with the lack of sustainable barriers. That would be bad and Blizzard should do something about it.
Blizzard should not utilise a change which reduces all of the damage boosting abilities into a tool to close the gap in value between a more skillful and a less skillful player.
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There are ways of nerfing snipers and their maximum value in a barrierless game without gutting damage-boost, that’s the problem here. Your solution is flawed, as it damages Orisa; Baptiste; Ana; Mercy - three of which are ultimates - and negatively impacts everyone else in the game, and demotivates players from landing headshots when damage-boosted bodyshots are much easier and just as effective.
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More like you keep insisting that tracking bodyshots is bad, and flicking headshots is good.
Much less the idea that spamming faster charging flicked headshots, is even better.
Mostly D.va.
If I’m not mistaken, I’ve 1 clipped multiple D.va’s in just the past week as Soldier.
At no point have I ever done that. Ever.
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