the ONLY thing i said didn’t matter was the "Team Follow up " point , That’s It
I specifically said what u CAN do EASILY
Yeah and the downtime point you didnt adress at all and then you denied that she doesnt have the damage for good pick potential.
I play her, i know that she doesnt have good pick potential. You dont, you just assume she can easy peasy get 1-2 picks.
please go back up and read again
I Addressed EVERY Single Point , the down time one Too , i Told u Exactly How downtime isn’t a problem
i Told Exactly How she gets HUGE value by simply Hacking
that’s why i Split up all my points instead of a paragraph
Would u Atleast agree on the Other heroes i mentioned in my reply to JEFF
read the one where i mention 5v5 and 5v4 teamfights
I should jump in and answer it.
She has no powers she can use in the fight, EXCEPT for her escape, so, Hack only makes the fight even, she has 2 abilities which can be used in a fight, hack, and translocation.
Translocation is used IF you are going to lose the fight, so you only have to return from your team / health pack, rather than spawn, and hack ONLY makes the fight even because she has NOTHING else.
Most heroes guns are STILL better than hers, once they are hacked. You hack Hanzo, and he is STILL going to one shot you. S76 will likely win the fight, etc.
and that is IF you can ever get hack off, which is not a sure thing. it takes time, and a single point of damage to you, or any scenery gets in the way, or someone flicks a shield, and it is over, that hack has failed, and now the enemy team know where you are, and worse, it takes time to cloak, so, usually, it is translocate time.
But translocate is bad. Because she is useless in the main fight…
So much so, that IF she doesn’t have EMP by the time the main fight starts, then her team is most likely going to lose it.
So, she had GOT to delay the fight starting, by trying to get a pick, away from her team, without shields, with the only ability to make the fight ONLY even.
She can still be one shot, easily, or the target can get peel, in which case, typically hack itself fails, she is forced to translocate, and then loses the main fight, because it is now on and she can’t stop it.
Oh no, I have been hacked, so NOW I have to fight her without my special powers, which, she doesn’t have anyway.
Like if she was full of abilities, AND could engage you with her team, then yeah, hack would be bad news, but, she doesn’t, and she can’t.
That is NOT her play style… hacking a DPS is WAY WAY WAY too dangerous, because they STILL have the upper hand, in the fight after it.
Ashe / Hanzo / S76 / Tracer / Torb etc… they all have better main guns than she does.
So you gotta hack the tanks, and you are NOT going to kill the tank. Like, you don’t have the weapon for it., but you are doing it to get ult, and to delay the fight as long as you can.
And hack isn’t easy position wise, because WHILE you are hacking that tank, the DPS will kill you, if they can get LOS on you. If they do so, then you lose the fight.
If you ONLY break even, and delay them but don’t get EMP, then you lose the fight.
You GOTTA engage them, before they get to your team, more than once, and you got to make it work each time, and the only tool you have once you commit to the attack is hack to make it as even as you can, and tele to get out.
If that sounds hard, then welcome to Sombra, because she is hard as hell to get value out of.
Hack a healer , It’s Definitely not as hard to deal with as a dps
Killing the Healer has Huge Value , ur team can Easily Push / Pressurize
Kill/Hack a healer and they don’t have beat/trans/nano etc - Huge Value
since your team is not just going to sit around usually , they fight front , you go in back and kill or even JUST Hack One healer , he’s good as Dead , killed by either you or other dps if you SHOTCALL
And u didn’t mention any Different playstyle after saying what I said about her playstyle was not true
Her Kit is Specifically Designed so that you can flank and Hack
and when I suggested this , that’s basically what i meant Actually , Give her something else Instead of hack , I’m obviously not going to just say remove hack and leave her as it is
Also , do you at least think the other things i mentioned to JEFF are reasonable
Maybe a customized special workshop code? I’m assuming it’s more involved than just workshop coding so wouldn’t be able to JUST replicate in the workshop but would have to use internal calls of some kind.
Ok, so, you now have to be behind the enemy lines, and to hack a healer, OUTSIDE of the dps’s LOS, because… and this is important. if you have hacked the healer. The dps still have ALL of its abilities.
If they can get to LOS, you have lost that fight.
ok, so in THIS senario, you have waited till they are just entering the main fight.
Cool, so… you have to hack the healer, AND not be killed, and you have EXACTLY one chance, because, the fight is now on.
you take a single point of damage, the hack fails, and, since you don’t provide NEARLY the same ability in the main fight as any other hero, you lose the fight.
That is a VERY dangerous way to play, and a hack means you have an advantage, but, a failed hack, means you are at a MUCH bigger disadvantage.
Ok, so, if you are back behind their shields, which is where you are going to have to be to get this hack, you are going to have to be there with ANOTHER dps.
If you die, then it is over. if they die, it is over. Again, this is VERY high risk compared to say a sniper. Where if you fail, you get more shots.
YES, and that is VERY dangerous by it’s nature.
Taking high ground and shooting targets, not so dangerous.
Running a sniper, again, not so dangerous.
Running Tracer / Genji, you have MORE abilities to bring to the fight, and a faster TTK, again, not so dangerous.
Every time you go for a hack, you are exposing yourself to the enemy team, WITHOUT shields, and without the health pool to survive if they get you, AND even if you get the hack off, you are VERY unlikely to get the kill.
Like, you wanted to know WHY her win rate was so low, it is because of the danger inherent in her kit.
Yes, you COULD remove hack, but, what would you replace it with? Making her an assassin would be FAR FAR more annoying than just hack to face.
So what do you do?
Well, it is why everyone wants her to be a support, because then you can make hack not into a disable power, but into something which gives your side an advantage against that hero. Yes, it would be less strong, but that power would be offset by the ability to heal your team.
Your teams too nearsighted to have never considered this before.
Obviously there are some scenarios where she isn’t exactly optimal based on Team comp ,
like if the enemy have double shied and are fighting from range , the hack won’t necessarily work because your team hasn’t closed the distance or broken the shield , now obviously if u have a sniper it’s Relatively ok
Especially if Both teams are fighting ON point ,Brawl , let’s say to cap the payload , For Ex - King’s Row , The healer is DEAD if hacked
you structured it in the Worst Possible Way , that the enemy dps WILL kill you if u hack their healer , Your Team can do the same and usually what 's the other dps with sombra ?? reaper/doom … which Still might change based on map/enemy comp
the enemy you hacked has a lot of value ,since they can’t properly Contribute to the team fight with their Abilities
even If your hack fails Doesn’t mean Instant Death , that doesn’t start the cooldown
Are u Really going to say Genji is Less Vulnerable than Sombra ?? he’s Weak Against SO many heroes , he has 2 cool downs and in a Fight Only one them is good , he is Nothing without his Reflect , Ton of Heroes Stomp him
And like u said get on high ground and shoot , Sombra can go There and Hack And Maybe even Just chip dmg ,the healer is Dead in a Team Fight
The Whole Point is Hack itself as an Ability is Unhealthy since it promotes Opposite of Effort / Skill
like the example I gave to the other guy , How is it Fair in Any scenario, to Tie someone up and Beat them and call That FAIRPLAY ?
YOU DIE if you’re Hacked in TEAM fight not necessarily by Sombra but in general ,u could die from A Lot of things since You’re Handicapped.
A kill that sombra Definitely Doesn’t Deserve
That’d be far better than putting up with Comp tryhards in freakin’ Experimental.
See, I don’t see it that way, what it forces is for you to be either be aware of what is going on around you so you can’t be hacked, or, more importantly, good enough at your base kit, that you don’t fall apart when you ARE hacked.
Many Sombra players have fallen to a Mercy who knows how to use her gun.
Same if you are booped, or stunned, or, walled out, or zoned by an ability or any number of other things.
Sombra TILTS the battlefield in her teams favor, if she can do that, live, AND do it in a way where the team can take advantage of it, then she deserves the win.
Because, as you can see from her win rate, you HAVE to be good with her to get that win - there is NO free value in her kit, she is regarded as one of the hardest heroes in the game to play, and for good reason.
It FEELS like a low skill thing to be hacked, but, you miss everything which the Sombra had to do right for that to even become a thing which is possible.
Or to put it another way. For all the effort Sombra likely needed to do to get a hack off, another hero would have just killed you, and much for safely for them
Her win rates are like they are for good reasons.
I think you should pick her up for a bit, and get a better feeling for how she plays before you are so quick with the “she didn’t deserve that kill”. She works DAMN hard for ANY kind of kill.
Or to put it another way, she has the second lowest kills per game of ANY DPS, and, she has the lowest solo kills in the game of any DPS.
Only Mei in the DPS lineup as a smaller final blows percentage.
Like… ANY kind of kill is super unusual from her, which is why she loses the team fights.
Least damage per game of ANY DPS. like, lower than Widow and Mei, and Mei freezes targets, and Widow LITERALLY one shots them, so has a pretty good kill ratio.
This is why she loses. She isn’t good at combat and is super fragile. So, if she gets a kill or assist, then she worked hard for it.
ANY ability she has on top of that HAS to be strong as hell, but, hack for all of its power, isn’t enough to make her work.
So literally, ANYTHING you replace it with would have to be stronger than hack… let that bad boy roll around in your head a little.
That isn’t even touching her ult, which is also IF you can charge it, is terrifying.
What the hell would you replace hack with which wouldn’t dumpster her? Because she needs buffs as she stands, as shown by win rates.
Whatever you replace it with would have to be so over the top crazy strong, that any complaint you had against hack would be EVEN MORE SO against the new ability.
Fixing Sombra is hard, BECAUSE all of her power is in hack, and EMP, and they made her useless without them.
I 'm actually not fan of stuns either ,Especially McCree and Brig , but being Booped or walled is Nowhere Near as Bad as Hack ,
Those two are EXTREMELY dependent on positioning , MAP and the enemy , you cannot boop or wall off Anyone, ANYWHERE as you please , like Even if he’s standing on point or in the back
Running up to you Invisible , appearing behind and hacking you , and Translocating after Chip DMG is Not "DAMN HARD "
The Mercy killing sombra is not an argument here , that is Highly Rare And Circumstantial
Like i said , Sombra HERSELF doesn’t Necessarily Need to Kill You , For YOU to die,
a Hundred things are going on
Even If You get a pick or Hack or Basically do your job Doesn’t Guarantee your Win ,Team based game
thats what is said , give her something else Instead
if you Even JUST Hack a Tank and translocate , HE is DEAD
Ok, take it up.
Because, here is how that goes in practice. You sneak up… all good.
You decloak, WHICH TAKES TIME and is VERY loud. You can’t START hack until it is finished, which ALSO takes time to complete.
The dps turn around, you start hack, and bang, you are dead.
Team has lost the fight.
If you DO succeed, then most likely you can’t finish the job, and have to recall. You have to do this MORE than once, to get value out of her, and it is real dangerous every time.
It isn’t, and that is the point.
Mercy’s pistol is no joke, and Sombra gun isn’t very good.
Mercy has a higher damage per second output than Sombra does, she pulls the pistol, and if she gets a hit, you GOTTA trans out, and the fight is lost.
Right, but the point is MOST of the time, hack doesn’t lead to a pick, because, it is TOO dangerous for you to stay there and finish the fight.
VERY rare is the situation where you can hack someone and have it even a 1-1, it is usually at LEAST 2v1 and not in your favor.
Cool so what do you give her… it NEEDS to be stronger than hack, because she sucks now, and that is WITH hack.
my suggestion won’t necessarily be perfect but You can give her a dmg Ability , Something She Dishes out
In every point , You are blowing it WAY out of proportion -
The time it takes to hack , yea That’s not happening , it takes 2 Sec AT MOST ( Decloak and hack) "bang you’re dead " Does Not happen
Like I said afterwards too , you hack and chip dmg a healer , your other dps or maybe Off tank kills him EASY
OR if u JUST hack a Tank ,HE is DEAD to Your Frontline
Mercy MIGHT kill u during her ULT , not always and if u hack and are close enough , there’s Good Chance u Kill her ,she Can’t Even guardian Angel
your Rate of fire compensates for that
Hack is the Ability that Tilts the fight in your Team’s Favor like u said ,
if Enemy Tanks and ONE dps are fighting Your Tanks , then the Hacked enemy is DEAD
Also , u at least agree on the rest of things i mentioned in reply to JEFF ??
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