Fam there was literally a post just like this one made 12 hours ago, got shut down and now you start THE EXACT SAME POST. It isn’t even founded on truth, just one post that was more observational than name calling.
I’ve been doing some light statistical analysis on this. I’ve run daily linear regressions on the data - there’s no real upwards trend in the general data. Furthermore, you’d expect any such trend to be more pronounced in higher ranks where strategy comes into play, and where her pick rates have been decreasing faster. No such trend there as well. The daily changes in win rate are minuscule and well within the average changes for other characters that you expect to be more stable.
Her win rates seem to be very stable despite huge swings like the decreasing pick rates. There is no win rate bounce back, and I personally don’t think there will be one in sight. I think it’s clearly a power level problem.
Like I said - I think they should wait longer. It doesn’t hurt to see more data. It also doesn’t hurt to take their time to come up with a good solution. But in a few months time if her situation is still as bad as the data indicates, they’re going to need to make a change. I’m hoping they take the time before that to come up with a good one that will actually fix the problem and will be in keeping with design principles, instead of prolong this long sequence of reactive moves by one more.
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I think, if Mercy really is too weak as she is now, 55 hp/s is not a bad solution.
Well, this one reason is somewhat okay but flawed at the same time. Why? Because you are not considering how Mercy was reverted (yes, reverted, not reworked). Valk existed back in the earliest days. Nowadays, it removes ALL weakness and skill taken from Mercy. Before that, she was a mobile strong consistent single target support.
What that means? She had to work hard for solohealing her team, not just going afk behind a cloud or a wall. Also, the comparison between Valkirie and Lucio’s Amp it up is obnoxious. Valk does 50 hp/s aoe healing while Amp it up does 47 hp/s healing. Differences? Valk last longer and it heavily encourages Mercy to disengage because the further you are, the bigger the aoe will be. Lucio must engage with his team. Also, having constant self regen makes your survivality way easier and thanks to flight you can hide wherever you want.
Secondly, nope, Mercy is all but fixed now. She is the most horrible experience in the game, her main purpose is to forgive bad game, hide and rez is mandatory and she even contradicts herself as a mobile character being glued to the floor while rezzing. She has all her bad designs from her past back in the game. She is now back in her alpha state, the worst she ever was. That must be fixed.
How to fix that without messing the game for ages as you said? Easy, first of all, remove both cancer valk and toxic E rez, they have no placement here. Then, place rez back as her ult, where it belongs. That ult doesn’t messes with any other character, unlike valk, and keeps Mercy being a single target support. Also, by removing valk, you remove a lot of unnecessary mobility, so she now would have to engage more often instead of going afk behing the clouds or the walls. After that, bring her a real E ability, not rez, because that’s an ult, no matter how you balance it. Balance properly those two and revert once more the healing (yeah, second healing revert, during the earliest days she had 50 hp/s healing and even Ana was outperforming her as a consistent support), and balance her Q and E properly without destroying her like this revert has done.
According to absolutely everyone but just 2-3 players valk is annoying and E rez is annoying. That opinion has been shared by people of all ranks and types. Anymetic said it. Seagull said it. A huge army of people said it. Current Mercy is cancer and must be fixed.
As you said, fun is subjective, and I found way more people finding that mechanic fun or just fine or meh than unfun (just 2-3). Anyway, if there was a problem with it, I could bet something that mass rez wouldn’t need 15 nerfs in one year to make it both fun and balanced. Hide and rez was only an exploit, so it only needed QoL changes, never a revert back to all the worst Mercy’s designs since forever.
About her being underpowered, I think I’ve explained this point, but the real Mercy 1.0’s problem was that she had no mid game utility. Bring her a real E ability, balance both her ult and her E ability (of course, removing the hide and rez lesser problem) and that’s all she needed. Regardless, lowering her healing to 50 hp/s is unacceptable, as that made Mercy absolute trash in the past and is making her trash now, as she can’t heal her team properly.
Finally, even if that had some risk, I think that a lot of people would thankfully take it over the option of keeping suffering with this cancerous spawn we have now. It’s better for a lot of people being underpowered but fun than being overpowered for a year but unfun.
Valk is just an ez mode pro simulator that no one calls to be used because it’s not relevant. No one likes it excepting for the free mode or the cheap battle mercy. I would even rather picking Lucio, as he at least must engage with his amp it up which make the same amount of healing that valk does but just for reduced time. At least you must time that ability.
Since valk deals only 50 hp/s, it’s nothing. It’s even better just to boost everyone and let them die if they can’t aim well their guns. Mercy’s winrate is by far the lowest of all the supports, and that’s because of how mediocre she is atm. Her main strenght, her consistent healing, is very low now. Also, remember that mass rez had no E ability, so if it had been at the same level of other ults, Mercy would have been extremely bad. Even tough mass rez was already powerful, she remained being bad at certain ranks exactly because of that lack of E ability.
Remember too that Mercy was never mandatory thanks to her mass rez, so it wasn’t so overpowered indeed. If she had an E ability and some tweaks for her mass rez she would have been fine.
It wasn’t a bad design. Having no E ability was bad design. Mass rez was fine. It needed small tweak for making place for that ability in terms of balance.
Nope, she is very weak now. Even Ana is outperforming her as a consistent support, exactly as it happened in the past. Yeah, Mercy’s healing has been reverted too, the same as her ult and her rez. I thought that Jeff said something about “no plans to revert her”, huh? Well, welcome to the biggest, worst, lamest and stupidest revert in all Ow’s history.
That can only be done by removing cancerous valk and cancerous E rez. After that, the best way should be placing rez where it belongs, adding a real E ability, reverting trash healing back (or forward, since it has been reverted to her past state, the same as her ult and her rez indeed) to 60 hp/s and balancing from that point. This revert is the worst thing has ever happened to the game.
Hope Blizz would have read this like a year and a month ago.
Although I agree, I’ll fix one point of your post where I can’t agree. Please, don’t compare valk with trascendence.
Trascendence: 300 hp/s healing
Valk: 50 hp/s healing
Amp it up: 47 hp/s healing
That’s a better comparison, since both do almost the same healing. The only difference is that Lucio at least must time it properly because valk last way longer, and he must engage instead of going afk behind the clouds or the walls.
Tbh, mass rez endured for two years with almost no changes, whereas valk + E rez have needed 15 nerfs in just the half of that time, way more than any other character in the game. That shows how bad her current design is and how a miserable failure the revert (keep calling it rework if you want) was from the beginning. Going forward to mass rez or reworking her with rez on her ult and a new E ability would require way less changes, as that rework wouldn’t be based only on mistakes from the past but on things that already worked well for the majority of the people, as even the Mercy hatters have admitted.
“It was only a bunch of Mercys hiding” Seagull, the pro player, about the hide and rez thing
“It wasn’t a matter of Mercy’s kit, but a matter of her broken SR system” Taimu, the pro player talking about hide and rez
As conclusion. If a design takes an entire year of constant changes month after month without anything being fixed, that’s because the design is just bad and has no placement in the game. Instead of wasting everyone’s time and effort, you, as a dev, must remove it and think about something better and healthier. That’s why valk got removed and replaced by mass rez during game’s development. Nothing was learnt, sadly.
Even if that happened, Blizz would have now the perfect answer to that: “Just pick Hammond.”
Tbh, 50 hp/s healing are way too low for making her a real main support. Even Ana can outperform that as a consistent support. That’s why her healing was buffed in the past from 50 to 60 hp/s. Yes, Blizz has reverted that, exactly the same as her ult and her rez. Worst revert ever.
I know you like this one but this feels like a reactive move to me, that could lead to more months of uncertainty and flux. And if 55 doesn’t work, where do you go from there? 57? 58? I think tinkering with her beam was was a bad idea.
60 hps felt decent. It had its drawbacks but it got the job done well enough. Moira could still out heal her quite easily if she tried, and could do it with more burst and aoe, but the consistency and ability to heal far away targets worked in its favor.
50hps feels terrible. It’s not getting the job done. A threshold has been crossed that’s preventing her from performing the main healer role properly. It’s possible that there is a reasonable number between 50 and 60, but I’m not sure that it can be found in any reasonable time period. Instead, I think the developers should think Mercy through much more carefully. They’re trying to find some local stable point, when there’s a much better solution somewhere in design space.
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I think there’s more risk of 55 being too strong than too weak. I’d go back to 60 with some other nerf, like rezzed targets coming back with max 250 hp or something.
Well written post, and I agree with your sentiment.
The reason I used Transcendence was not a direct healing comparison. I was comparing ultimate to ultimate, and reinforcing the fact that if Mercy was to just heal during the duration of Valkyrie she still would heal far far less then Zenyatta in Transcendence, not to mention be vulnerable to death. I am aware that the healing comparison between Valkyrie and Amp healing from Lucio is the better healing comparison.
Blizzard would have to actually answer something in the first place. The silence from Blizzard is currently deafening.
After review of the majority of profiles, subtracting the hidden ones, most people in favor of Mercy falling into obscurity are Damage Dealer players or Support players who don’t like to play Mercy.
For once I want to see a developer not cater to the Damage Dealers. 30+ years of always yielding to their complaints. Why is it we can’t have 1 game where tanks and supports plus strategy determine the outcome of the game? Damage Dealers have had three decades of being the star of the show. It high time they took a back seat to the backbone players who do the real work, and have always done it.
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So, if 55 is too strong do you go to 52? 53? Look at how destabilizing a change of 10 hps was. We’re at a really unstable point in design space, and I don’t think it’s a good idea to chase a very specific ephemeral point there instead of moving back and looking at the bigger picture. Why not just try to do things from principle and see where that goes?
You know my view here. The beam needs to go back to 60. I wouldn’t mind some nerfs to res (in fact, I want it removed), and I wouldn’t mind changes to Valkyrie either (I want the chain beams removed in favor of somewhat higher healing on the main beam. I think it adds a feeling of decision making/impact while also preventing Mercy of escaping her role as a single target healer).
But yet those same people act like they did nothing wrong. The amount of times I’ve called out people for being jerks, than they try and act like they did nothing is almost mind blowing. If I didn’t already know the internet was a horrible place, this place would only lead me to know it for sure.
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She is fun.
At least I think she’s fun.
No one is being mean to Mercy players because they want her “fun” and you know it.
You’re already splitting the player base. There are many Mercy/support players, like myself, who think the current Mercy is fun and don’t want her changed.
Are you willfully ignoring us? Do you simply think all Mercy players think like you? I guarantee if there was a revert you would have many people, Mercy players included, on the forums complaining about the revert.
It’s also up to you to completely ignore any and all Mercy players who don’t agree with you and erroneously imply we all want the same thing for Mercy. (we don’t)
Yeah, good luck. I want that too, but different people have different opinions and want different things.
Case and point:
You and many Mercy players want a revert.
Myself, and others, do not.
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Nicely composed reply. Haven’t seen something constructive recently. Chatting with people like (can’t name people) is tiring.
Well I’m not exactly in for a complete revert. I’m more for a rework including mass res with cast time/LoS (you know, tweaks) + decent E ability to raise the skill floor/ceiling of the character. Currently both of these are low and Mercy is not even challenging to play. But is not really impactful too. The 50hps nerf finished her off in my opinion.
These forums are rife with that unfortunately. I’m glad you see my reply as constructive since most people seem to think I’m trying to be toxic.
And I’m not necessarily opposed to that, but if that’s your meaning then I think, perhaps, it could be more effectively conveyed in the OP.
Though, I’m so tired of Mercy changes I actually just want her to settle a little. Your suggestion opens the possibility of another “OP rework where Mercy dominates the game for a year and needs 10+ nerfs to balance”.
I don’t think anyone wants that.
I think the challenge to Mercy is being able to stay alive in the thick of a fight. Being able to bait people into attacking you, but not being able to kill you. You can waste a lot of the DPS’s time doing that.
I have had many fights where I was doing this and was the first to die. However, since the team was so focused on killing me, my team was able to take advantage of their poor positioning, since people will go out of position to attack Mercy no matter what, and they win the fight as a result.
Another hard part about her current kit is being able to tell if you can resurrect and when you can do it.
I agree, as anyone must agree, that she doesn’t have the impact she once had.
However, her consistent healing cannot be ignored or underestimated. Yes, it’s been nerfed, but it’s still the easiest and most consistent effective healing in the game.
In all, we want the same thing, honestly. We just have disagreements on how to get there, when, and what the result should look like.
Well yes, it may. But people rarely played mercy for her Res as an ult. And the E ability suggested is not something that would define meta IMHO.
I didn’t take it in the OP but I’m referring to Titanium’s post
I’m not gonna quote the rest of the post as I agree with almost all of the points
I have to disagree here. I’ve been playing since the day the game came out and played support. Sometimes I would be Lucio, but the team wanted the possibility of mass resurrection. I would swap so we could have it.
Most times I swapped to Mercy, back when she had resurrect as an ultimate, was solely to be able to mass resurrect.
And people, myself included, thought that her first rework would kill her. It ended up making her better than ever before. Just because we don’t think the ability will have that effect doesn’t mean we’re right. We can’t know, really.
Ah, yes, the infamous titanium’s post. I have my issues with it and we won’t discuss it here since it doesn’t matter, really.
Unfortunately, though, I don’t think any thread like this will ever really work in curbing toxicity. Honestly, it is probably a magnet for it. I haven’t read the other replies, but based on your first response I have to assume you’ve had some… less than helpful replies.
No no. I mean DPS/tank players rarely go Mercy when they have to flex support. They go ana/zen/lucio and now that moira is out she is effective and easy to play.
Same. I thought she wouldn’t be fun and she would be useless. When she ended up being meta I was surprised.
I think blizzard should make one community idea of mercy be tested on the PTR every 2 weeks. When we come to a PTR patch that most people like we should just push it live.
I’m referring to it as I voted to which abilities (that are included in the “solution” section) I think would work. I generally like the rework, EeveeA has a positive feedback about it too.
I don’t think any thread generally helps in the forums as blizzard show pure ignorance when coming to listening the community
Ah, I see. I misunderstood you. My apologies.
Excellent suggestion, and I personally agree. I’d expand it, however, to just giving the player more options in custom games to “Create” (more or less) the Mercy they want to try out.
Why not let her mas res in a custom game?
There is more truth here than I want to admit for sure.
I’m here to kill time, honestly. xD
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Well I would like to see “a drawing board” in the custom games. You could code (or make a blueprint) of abilities for custom games. Some people will make great games
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Maybe if the same 12-20 posters stop constantly clogging the forums with Mercy spam, then maybe they won’t be treated so poorly. Just a thought.
If it were spam it’d be taken down as such and often times its not though which is why you rarely see it taken down.
Its not only Mercy players spamming. There are antiMercys that spam as well. And they are spamming about mercy too… Which is … sad the very least
(insert “You have become what you fought” meme here)