Goats was already dead when role Queue was released. It was not implemented to kill goats.
Okayā¦ My mistake.
I just made a logical thought, which sometimes may come true and sometimes may not. I was not absolute in any way.
Also, besides that, letās not compare the amount of time and money required to develop a slight transformation of just one of the different parts of role - lock to creating the entire system itself in the first placeā¦ For obvious reasons of courseā¦
Once again, despite the fact that none of us can be true of how often te devs learn from the āāmistakesāā in the first place and quantify this as a metric, if the devs have been so dishonest and unable to admit mistakes as youāre suggesting, then why would they say that 3/2/1 was met mostly with criticism??
Why would they suddenly tell the truth if they are going to implement the system anyways as youāre suggesting??
These two points do nothing but collide with each otherā¦
Ehh thatās not even close to what actually happened, but hey keep being biased I guess!! 
Donāt hold your breath pal. Blizzardās investors and any companyās investors in that regard are always the first ones to know whether the numbers of a specific product, its retention rate, etc. are falling and are the first ones who are going to act, because itās their money thatās going to be lost, not Jeffās.
Theyāre not going to expect Jeff to do a video in order to be pleased. They want money and numbers, metrics that the game is still clearly bringing to the table, even with 2/2/2 role - lock, as it has been left untouched and has only been built upon for the last months.
So once again, your train of logic, unfortunately, makes little to no sense and your ideas are in conflict with each other, probably from trying so much to prove a non - existent point, such as 2/2/2 role - lock supposed āāfailureāāā¦
Disappointing to say the leastā¦ 
Thatās the only thing I can say in this instanceā¦
You cannot call the ā5 DPS compsā a competitive experience eitherā¦
Considering now I can definitely blame my DPS on their lack of ability to kill anyone even as I try to heal them whilst being targeted. I donāt mind it too much. But the bans, Iām not sure about that.
Because it serves their purposes and they had no choice. They have learned what a mistake 2-2-2 was and despite not wanting to admit mistakes they are sometimes forced too. You canāt try something as drastic as 3-2-1, not implement it, then claim it was a success.
They also did not COMMIT to implementing it as they did with 2-2-2. The entire reason they did a separate experimental card THIS TIME is so they can separate their intentions and hide their mistakes a little more easily.
When one has no argument they instead attack the one presenting it. Such as calling them bias.
And as such have direct influence on what dev teams work on and focus. They see a problem with retention numbers for instance and study changes in comparison to when those numbers fallā¦ then direct the dev team to correct it.
How little you understand publicly traded stocksā¦
Any news connected to a product has direct influence on the value of the holdings connected to said product. Someone says that oranges did not fare well this season? Guess what happens to holdings? They are sold off.
The same applies to that of developer statements. If they make a mistake and publicly admit it then it influences the value of holdings. Stocks are 20% fact and 80% emotion based. You have to predict what others emotional reaction to product news will be and decide how to act accordingly.
Jeffās statements are very much influence by the shareholders wanting to retain value. Denying this shows supreme naivete of how publicly traded companies work.
My train of logic is perfectly sound provided you understand how stock trading works.
I mean, when one such yourself Sandvich does not understand stocks how can we expect more from you?
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Iāve always thought if people actually cared about their ranks, they would choose to play a hero that the team lacks. For a long time Iāve always believed creativity helps to counter op team compositions or create one. Even with 5 DPS, players can still pull a miracle but your probability of winning decreases. Also yes GOATS was almost completely dead before Role Queue but when they implemented it, they cemented it for sure.
What mistake??? Do you understand that you have absolutely 0 proof whatsoever that 2/2/2 role - lock was a mistake and/or any thing close to a failure??
Do you understand how ridiculous and biased you sound when you persistently and repeatedly bring up a point which Iāve asked you to provide evidence for, you have none and at the same time only evidence that proves the exact opposite conclusion exists??
They implemented it in Experimental in a very professional way for an entire week. They could have very, very well said that the response was staggering and that they would be implementing 3/2/1 with changes in like a month, if theyāre that prone to lying to us as you want to believe.
Give me one line of evidence that proves the devs were commited to 2/2/2 role - lock from the very beginning, despite the fact that they spent 10X the resources overall on that initial system than 3/2/1.
No, no, please. Donāt give me that.
You are the one who has provided absolutely 0 evidence to prove any of your points, rather than your own absolute staggering bias and stubbornness to accept reality, which happens to not align with your own little bubble if personally disliking 2/2/2 role - lock.
So please, stop with the hypocrisy already.
Great. And has such a thing happened so far?
No, it hasnāt. Next conversation thenā¦
Are you an analyst as well I see??
Public companies, either way, publish the exact numbers/statistics/retention rates/etc. every once in every 6/3 months and with even more details at the end of the year.
If Jeff creates a video saying that 2/2/2 role - lock or any other system in that regard was absolutely amazing for the game and everything is sunshine and rainbows, but in fact tons of players players are leaving, streamers are quitting due to queue times, poor flex players are leaving and āāso many peopleāā are unhappy with the system and as a result the game as a whole, etc., do you actually think the share holders/stock holders would still care about what Jeff said a few months ago?
I donāt think I have to answer that question. What you are describing and that emotional variable you bring to the table certainly plays an important role, donāt get me wrong, but not at this point in time. Weāre past, past the point that a couple of words from Jeff claiming 2/2/2 role - lock was a failure means anything to the share holders. Maybe what youāre saying could be true 3 months after 2/2/2 role - lockās release, but weāre almost a year in and therefore the variable youāre talking about does not matter anymore, thatās what I want you to understand.
Annual reports, 3rd/4th quarter financial results etc. have been released in the mean time, etc., hard - numbers which indicate nothing but the money coming in and out, share holdersā favorite words.
And, as it seems and according to the actual numbers, everything is fine in that regard concerning both the system and the game in generalā¦
When someone like yourself cannot understand that when throw around random claims without any sort of evidence backing them up, then said claims are nothing but invalidā¦
But hey, as you saidā¦ āHow can we expect more from you?ā
But this time Iām not saying this sarcasticallyā¦
You have already admitted a āfair takeā when I pointed out they are desperately trying to fix the problems created by role queue. So much so that they are acting much quicker then normal.
Logical conclusion is that it is pretty serious and they really are concerned.
Iāve brought it forth. Their actions speak very clearly.
Youāve done nothing but quote words. Words from the people who are infamous for rarely admitting mistakes. They only ever do so if forced too.
They could have, but they didnāt. Because they learned from previous mistakes. Such as 2-2-2. They donāt implement things for the sake of it. They implement it because they think its the right decision. However, after they make those decisions and they donāt pan out they donāt own up to it unless circumstances force them too.
They put in experimental THIS TIME because the LAST TIME they just threw a drastic change at the game it created severe problems they have no answer for.
The fact that they implemented it in OWL first. That they talked about it for a quite a while. The fact that they implemented into the game without any longstanding testing on the general public.
They were committed to doing so because they wanted to change OWL and as such they never implement something into OWL without bringing it to the main game.
Oh, I will. Itās your main method of attack Sandvich. I recognize it. Back in a corner? Better claim bias on the part of the opponent. Better fain confusion and no evidence when anyone can see the argument is pretty sound and the reasoning is there.
I have provided sound reasoning backed by fact. Sounds like evidence to me.
More desperate ploys. Backed into a corner? Call the person a hypocrite. Sandvich, Your debate skills need some sharpening and you need a new means of approaching discussion. Ad Hominem is a pretty sad stance to take.
It certainly has. Once again, you are naive if you think that shareholders have no influence on the development of a game.
Nope, A person who has traded in stocks for near six years (and done pretty well at it too).
Yes, But stockholders donāt simply wait for those numbers as trading is a DAY BY DAY occurrence. Do you not remember the āDo you guys not have phones?ā debacle? Do you not know how quickly their share price dropped? What about the Hearthstone tournament? The whole scandal ALSO caused drops in stock price.
~Sigh~ You just donāt get it do you? He did it AT THE TIME because AT THE TIME it would not have reflected well on shareholder stock. Because share prices fluctuate DAILY. Not monthly, not bi-annually, DAILY.
You cannot dismiss motivation for what is said just because it inconveniences you. YOU are the one who brought as an example of evidence and as such it HAS to be fully analyzed in context and what would motivate or influence his claims.
The context does not change just because it no longer influences the stock market. If the actions were for that moment in time motivated by profit and not by honesty then it does not suddenly become truth months later. A lie is still a lie. A PR move is still a PR move.
I wonder what could have influenced that? Hmm? Perhaps reports made by Jeff to influence stockholder response? Those numbers could very well be different if honesty were used.
Good thing I have done no such thing then.
You not accepting logical conclusions does not invalidate my view or my argument Sandvich.
Of course not. Your way is attacking the character of the person presenting the argument. So sad.
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Roleque isnāt a failure, everytime I play QP Classic, youāll get a 3/4 stack who will play whatever they want, everyone is doing their own thing. Roleque was a godsend for QP. QP Classic is a piece of garbage and itās only fun if youāre playing as a group. I always go in QP Classic and do whatever I want, those are the rules there.
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I personally find qp classic to be the most fun mode of play currently available in OW, and I am almost always in solo que
I dont find anything about this mode to be anything like āgarbageā
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Of course they want to fix the side - problems created by role - queueā¦ All systems have problems and the devs are tying to fix them, if they werenāt, they wouldnāt have tried 3/2/1 in the first placeā¦
But, what I donāt agree to is the importance of those problems and how you perceive them, because Iām going to repeat that if said problems were so important as youāre suggesting, then the devs would have immediately implemented 3/2/1 into the game, or at they at very least would not have addressed the entire experiment as if it were a failure.
These two thoughts unfortunately collide with each otherā¦
Iāve already explained my stance on this matter. Iām not going to repeat myself.
And you have quoted absolutely nothing, other than your own anecdotal at best thoughts and subjective crisis.
Once again, the same old misinformationā¦ Hasnāt it gotten tiring already??
Soā¦ Just like 2/2/2 role - lock?
I mean they tried fixing most of the problemsā¦ A lot of them have already been fixed and the only major one right now are the high queue times, which ironically if we only take into consideration their past actions of balancing, hero releases, etc. it seems as if they have been trying on purpose to make matters worse rather than fix themā¦ 
After weeks of testing in the PTRā¦
Yes and they initially said years ago that they thought it wasnāt a good idea for the game, but then changed their mindsā¦
My method of attack is providing actual evidence for the claims I make, a āskillā that you clearly lackā¦
Also, by āāanyoneāā are you referring to yourself and your classic 2/2/2 role - lock hater friends?? Because really theyāre the only ones who can agree with your subjective, anecdotal and without - any - proof point of viewā¦
Once again, by āāfactāā are you referring to your anecdotal and subjective at best point of view concerning the subject??
Because really thatās the only āāreasoningāā youāve provided this farā¦
I never thought I would see the day when a person who doesnāt even understand the fundamental logic that even my 10-year-old sister understands of providing evidence of your claims would start teaching me about debatingā¦
What a jokeā¦
Ad Hominem implies that Iām escaping the discussion and your āāargumentsāā by directing personal insults towards you and only that, something thatās clearly false, as Iāve already pointed out the flaw in your stance in generalā¦
If what youāre saying was actually true, then Jeff wouldnāt continue repeating the same exact conclusion, as recently even as 2 months ago in official Developer Updatesā¦ And all thatās already considering the fact that it wouldnāt be the wisest decision for Jeff in the first place to mask the truth in the first place, because not only would shareholders find the truth in just a few months if the game was underperforming as a result, but also itās always better not implementing a system in the first place in order to avoid a backfire such as the one youāre suggesting, rather than allow said system to go through if you already know it may destroy your gameā¦
Crafting conspiracy theories now I see??
Iām truly wondering how much more sad can you get trying to āāproveāā non - existent pointsā¦
- Says the person who cannot accept the only pieces of evidence that exist in this entire subjectā¦
- Your own subjective and anecdotal train of logic and crisis does not automatically validate, nor prove your claim. You are totally free to speculate, have your own opinion and be doubtful though, more power to you concerning that, but that does not mean in any way that you can suddenly prove a stance no actual source can validate just because you personally have some doubts, warranted or notā¦
I have explained my stance, I have given you all of my initial arguments and the proof supporting it. Done.
From this point and on and I think you really comprehend this, I donāt care what youāre saying. The fight is already lost.
The only evidence that exists out there concerning this subject supports that the majority of the player base enjoys 2/2/2 role - lock and that the system was nothing but a success.
The above are facts for the time being.
They will only stop being facts when you come back to be and present actual evidence the proves the opposite conclusion. Mind you, I donāt want to hear your own subjective and anecdotal opinions and crisis concerning this subject dressed up as facts.
Because in my opinion yeah the earth is flat. The person next to me seems to agree with me and likes all my posts where I talk about this point of view of mine. Yeah, of course every single scientific society out there says otherwise, but no Iām the one whoās right because theyāre actually lying because they are funded by the Illuminati and I donāt know who in order to brainwash us and stuff.
Thatās exactly the way you have been acting and how your āālogicāā has been playing out. Literally, E X A C T L Y.
So yeah, Iām not going to continue this conversation with you and any such conversation in that regard, because reallyā¦ I see no point to it to be honestā¦
Come back to me when you have actual evidence which supports your view (statistics, numbers, data, interviews, declining rates, WHATEVER)
Until then, have a nice day.
Not releasing new heroes was a failure.
Making Echo a DPS was a failure.
1-3-2 totally sucks.
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You should try Total Mayhem.
222 arrived at OWL before we got a chance to play it on PTR.
IMO, 222 should had been a OWL only rule. Maybe also in Comp, but definitely away from QP.
At least they finally turned achievements on into QPC.
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I agree 1-3-2 would be a better way to go. But with that change make tanks much harder to kill. I play tank and my wait times have been less than one minute. I wouldnt have an issue waiting longer as long as i was harder to kill. Reaper being able to take out a tank in a 1 on 1 just sucks. It should take at least 2 players.
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They did. The 1-3-2 specific changes made all of the tanks harder to kill.
Well, it is garbage.
Still better than 5 dps.