Ya I think they do, and I think sometimes it’s ok if the unfun to play against because I’m upset I died isn’t the reason. Sometimes you can change things for actual game health reasons and I’m ok with that. The problem is it’s not usually the case in these nerf because unfun threads.
I agree they do happen. And also you can see my reply just above this to know that I think game health changes can be good, it’s just that most these threads that are nerf because unfun to die to is not really valid feedback and usually just salt fueled.
This is a very valid point, and I agree with you. That’s what sucks about using forums is that it generally is knee jerk reactions to in game events. But not every post is like that though.
My thoughts on cc for example closely resemble those of salty Rein mains who went 5 mins without being able to move. I’ll spare you the monologue, but my thoughts are heavily stat based. Those are the kind of arguments that need heed paid to them, even if they turn into a bandwagon for salty players.
when most people agree that a hero makes the game unfun that hero need a rework or a hard nerf
sadly they dont care, they nerfed her for seagull.
i’d be a dev i’d rework every hero at some extent to decrease the frustration
did u see the difference in the fun factor after stun and knock back nerf’s? i did, your argument is in invalid at least i can play 60% of the time now
This brings in double standards when you consider cases like Mercy.
Mercy got completely reworked because multirez was “unfun” to play against. But when the Mercy base complains that the reworked version of her is “unfun” to play as, suddenly everyone has a hundred different excuses for why that’s okay and how that’s not a good enough reason to rework Mercy again.
As I’ve clarified in other posts, what is really meant by unfun in this context is actually unfair.
But even aside from that, that is not a double standard. Assuming they did rebalance or change a hero solely for the fun aspect, being unfun to play against absolutely trumps being unfun to play as.
And nobody I’ve ever seen on this forums has said Mercy isn’t allowed to be reworked again. The people against it are against mass rez coming back. Not a another rework in general.
Mass rez did have unfair aspects of it, but they could have easily been fixed with tweaks. I’m still upset that the devs threw the baby out with the bathwater like that… and now we have to deal endgame fights being “spam Q for a guaranteed win”, which is even more obnoxious to play against.
A common argument against mass rez coming back is that the last form we had of it was unfair and didn’t have enough counterplay… but any suggestions to bring a modified version back with the counterplay they wanted are shot down.
Person 1: “Mass rez shouldn’t come back because it was instant cast and went through walls”
Person 2: “How about it come back with a cast time and Line of Sight restriction, then?”
Person 1: “NO! Mass rez was unfair because it was instant cast and went though walls, so it should NEVER come back, EVER!”
Replace “Unfun to play against” with “Has a win condition that is absurdly dumb to play around” and you’ll get a better grasp of what people are not liking. People hate Brig because her win condition of “Get close and hit things” can only be played around by running away or picking S76. It’s not a gray area of places to out play or interesting interactions happening. She’s not close? She dies. She is close? She wins. 1.0 Hog had similar issues, so did Doomfist. Where they had to do one thing and they are rewarded immensely, where as you need to do far more to overcome them doing that one thing.
Counter play doesn’t mean you have to kill that person. Just stand behind a barrier and widow can’t kill you. The counter play is a barrier tank and intelligent positioning/making use of cover.
This game is about killing things, and 99% of the roster cannot contest a widowmaker without getting in her face, except Widowmaker herself.
You’re not always going to have a shield to stand behind. Getting instantly killed without the opportunity to fight back isn’t fair. Look at a McCree vs Reaper scenario. The Reaper waks into his line of sight and best case scenario that McCree gets a headshot, but Reaper doesn’t instantly die. The Reaper knows that even though he can’t fight back, he knows the opponent’s location and can at least afford to take at least 1 shot if he does decide to contest that McCree. That’s not the case with Widowmaker, you’ll get insta killed 90% of the time you walk into her line of sight.
You don’t get it if that’s how you characterize being killed by something that is “unfun”
Again, you don’t get it. People are fine with dying by a variety of options. There is a point where it is so anti-fun that it needs to be changed, though.
Again a profound lack of understanding of where anti-fun complaints stem from. At least mine.
I am tired of being repeatedly killed by things that are blatantly unfair and require little skill and low risk. I am tired of people defending these obviously OP, unhealthy additions to the game.
Horrible analogy and everyone understands there needs to be consequences.
Nice straw-man.
Source?
Nope, you are completely missing the point. Sure, many people complaining about “anti-fun” are just complaining and need to get better, but there are obvious things that break or can break the game that are not fun and need changing.
Case and point: Doomfist, Brigitte, Mercy (right after rework), Bastion (right after ironclad was added but before it was nerfed)
It saddens me how many heroes have been ruined with this logic, x is unfun to play against, and no doubt more will be ruined by ghastly and/or unnecessary reworks.
How many heroes would you say are in a “ruined” state right now?
Overpowered or otherwise cancerous heroes being brought in line with the rest is not something to get dramatic about, regardless of how much you need the crutch.
No the game is about taking objectives. Killing things is a means to do so but is not required. Sometimes merely having a strong unkillable presence can get people to back off if they themselves cannot kill you.
You win games by making the enemy unable to do their job. If you don’t have a barrier then that is the fault of your team. Getting killed by a widow from afar when your team has no means to protect themselves doesn’t make it unfair, it simply means you have a bad team.