Do you read the forums much? I’m not demonizing or antagonizing anyone, pal. I’m criticizing something that should be criticized.
I remember this, most people here knew right away that she helps Rein more than she hurts him, and the main complain has always been that she makes playing Rein quite unfun, not that she makes him unplayable.
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If we use that logic then your counter argument is just to go off topic on counter arguments and then I will just quote what you said to me. “If you can’t handle a counterargument properly then think twice before posting an extremely unpopular and controversial topic on a public forum.” Boy that was productive.
The fact is people bandwagon ideas, with or without them being credible at all. And they say hyperbole, and if I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that hyperbole is a sure sign the person probably has very little to back up their point of view.
Hyperbole
Hyperbole also, as that isn’t even a common occurrence to be stunned then one shot across the map. If you’re stunned you have other things to worry about like the person standing right next to you who stunned you because all CC in this game has very short range. IN A SHOOTER. Imagine being close range where most heroes can shoot things.
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I understand english enough to see you are accusing “someone” of doing “something” and talking on behalf of “someone” because you clearly said “you” and then signed “dear mains of X” and listed all heroes.
Bashing the meme of “yeah this hero was nerfed because it was unfun to play against” is quite old mate. There are logical and empirical reasons to every nerf and you are clearly having something in mind, but you dont want to say it so you throw a random vague statement including everyone and saying it is on behalf of “everyone”.
You use “we” like you are speaking on behalf of someone so yeah, quit running around and beating around the bushes : What are you specifically complaining about and why now?
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I remember a lot of buff rein give him cc immunity, brig destroyed rein threads as well. It was only after she was released and some data came out those went away. But with some things there is no followup data or it’s hard to prove, or if you give it to them, they ignore it.
Community feedback is not the whole story though. Balance decisions are not made solely on community feedback. There are other pieces of the puzzle that go into it like statistics, comparisons, objective evidence etc.
How long did the forums whine about Genji? He ultimately got a bug fix to his deflect hitbox but I honestly can’t even call that a proper nerf. That’s because the community was being subjective on the matter, while all objective evidence showed that Genji was balanced.
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Accusation would imply I’m stating they’re doing something that everyone can’t see for themselves. But if you read the forums, you can clearly see, nerf because unfun threads all the time. nerf because frustrating. Why do you think mass rez was changed and turned into a giant debacle? Widow’s scope changes to give a sniper a clunky scope?
The point is people post all the time saying, trying to rally people to nerf a hero. I listed every hero, because it has happened for EVERY hero. That is the point. It reveals the hypocrisy of it in the first place. Everyone who has a main, and that main is subjected to it, will not like it and be tired of it. It reveals the conflict of interest between players that know a hero and play it a lot, and those wanting them changed because they do not understand the hero and just don’t want to bother to learn how to beat them. So yes it is we. For saying you understand a lot of things and being accusing yourself, I am sure doing a lot of explaining and defending of accusations from you.
Your argument: People who don’t like playing against ‘unfun’ heroes won’t like playing in any game
My counterargument: Unfun heroes in other games aren’t as ‘unfun’ as unfun heroes in this game.
Your rebuttal: You’re argument is salty
I can’t properly counter that because there is no counterargument for an insult unless it is flat out wrong and you can prove it.
The only thing I can do there is point out that that wasn’t a counter argument.
I did not say you are salty, I said that is just another example of a bin people put their salt in without much thought. Unfun is subjective, I went into all that already but you ignored it to give a snide response.
Like Torb’s aimbot turret that can instantly shoot you though the smallest crack. It’s unfun but not unfair.
You could be that Widow and do that if you want. It’s the point of snipers though.
Sorry, I’ll edit it
I do love snide responses, but not this time I’m afraid. I read the post.
Nope. Complaining about something that is only on your mind is not going to help anyone, specially when you clearly have something specific in mind you are choosing not to say.
It had NO counters and invul was added because mercy mains said it was a death sentence. You can choose not to believe the facts but those are the facts.
False again. The clip size was normal and the fire ratio was a bit fast so thats an adjustment. Working as intended.
Nope wrong again.
Yeah im done with vague statements. Yours are based on a false premise so we are done here.
Well, my point is that unfun being subjective, you need a way to differentiate between valid changes that would make the game more fun for everyone, and these bandwagon’d ideas that are just bins for people to pour their own frustration at losing into. You could contest that people do that, that a lot of the complaining on the forums isn’t about frustration born from losing or dying, but that’d be pretty hard to refute in my view.
Look at it this way:
If Widow shooting you across the map is a 3 pointer from half court,
Brigitte Shield bash is/was your guard kicking you in the shin and stalling the game for 2 minutes for a technical foul.
I dont at all disagree with you, but perhaps my statement is a bit misleading since I think the OP kind of started without a loaded question (or, a loaded comment, so to speak :)). Heroes that are rebalanced based on community feedback are not merely done so for being unfun, they are done so because they feel unfair, which is distinctly different. I believe that unfair is actually what the vast majority of community feedback is referring to when they call mechanics unfun.
Genji’s deflect was not changed because people complained it was too strong, but because the hitbox and animation did not match up. This led to frustration because people felt like they were aiming a fair distance away but were being taken advantage of by misleading visuals. There’s a lot of gif’s online that show something like a Widow or McCree aiming what feels like a sizeable distance away at another target and see it get deflected back at them. This probably very very rarely led to any statistic difference in Genji’s actual performance, but it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t feel very unfair when it happens.
The title clearly says what the topic is, pal.
All of this is wrong but ok.
Look up patch history, you’re wrong, her quickscoping was changed and more time to scope in given.
Even zen has had posts about he’s unfun to play against, every hero has. So you are wrong again.
Here is a nice logic puzzle for you:
A) EVERY hero has had a nerf because unfun thread
B) We should Nerf because things are unfun
C) Therefore, we should nerf everyone
That’s forum logic right there, and they just glaze over the meaning of both A and B being true but will say it over and over but if both A and B are true then C would follow and C is garbage. The point is, as I’ve said several times very UNVAGUELY that these types of threads and this type of reasoning is terrible and not only has no merit, but is tired and not much more than complaining.
Maybe not nerf exactly, but you are objectively wrong in implying change will never happen because of it. Scatter arrow.
Developer Comments: The goal of these Hanzo changes is to allow him to have new options and maintain his high damage output, while removing the frustration of fighting against the old Scatter Arrow. Hanzo is now much more mobile with his new Lunge ability, and with the combination of the bow projectile speed increase and the new Storm Arrows ability he can now deal his high damage more consistently than ever before.
Unfun is very much a valid reason to change or nerf a hero. It just needs explanation to be more than a buzzword.
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It seems we are agreeing, but the Genji deflect fix was after months of the community begging for his utter destruction (changing dash reset, nerfing blade, removing double jump, among other more absurd demands). Finally, out of those complaints, only one that was objectively true was his massive deflect hitbox.
Oh believe me, I main Widow and McCree. He could snipe me back when I was aiming 10 feet to his side, and he could deflect my flashbangs from most angles.
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But… isn’t that the exact reason (given by Blizzard) why Roadhog, Mercy, Brigitte and Doomfist were changed? Or am I mirsemembering?
Not saying it’s the correct way of nerfing characters, btw.
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I think that’s probably why the only change they ended up making was the deflect hitbox change. Of all the complaints, it was the only one that was really a valid complaint about being unfair, not simply unfun. ![:slight_smile:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")