💔 Bastion ISN’T being forgotten, he’s being ignored

[TREB-21513]

Reins need serious luck to perform the things they do

Not much. As long as no one else is putting up serious fire then it’s very very consistent. There’s no variation on the damage Bastion can do to shield or to Rein when he begins to charge. It’s less “luck” and more judgement. If a Rein figures out what distance he can safely begin a charge… he knows luck isn’t a factor.

If he doesn’t know, it seems like luck.

The problem with all this is it punishes a Bastion too much for striking out on his own and gives too much incentive to Bastion just cowering behind shields n heals which is pretty boring (and doesn’t work when you get snowballing).

[TREB-21513]

With IC: 51 + 51 + 51 + 51 + 51 + 51 = 306, however a Bastion can survive this if he is healing himself.

It’s -51 -51 -56 -56 -56 -56

His armour runs out after the first 2 hits, depending on when you begin healing it might be -51 three times then -56.

My solution is to get rid of IC but give Bastion 350HP total and 200 of it armoured health, so more than half of his HP is armour. Makes sense as he is, like Orisa, a very chunky robot.

Yes, that would mean Storm Arrows kill Bastion in 6 arrows with an overkill of 50 damage, but he still only needs to avoid one arrow by reconfiguring (at no extra cost as there’s no IC to lose) or fragging the Hanzo in time, or healing 50HP in 3 seconds.

A higher rate of healing in self-repair is vital for that. Up to 100hp/sec.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

Hitscan with no spread - at all - is a bit much.

It’s because his firerate is being cut in half.

Hes trading rapid fire + less accuracy for less firerate + more damage.

shot would deal over 1500 damage.

And your point? Sentry can put out 4500 Damage but over the course of 11 seconds. It’s not like all of that damage goes to good use.

Is that really a proportional way of addressing where Bastion is weak to double his firing time before reload? And make him a full auto sniper?

It’s either that or Knockoff: 76.

nice good “chugging” rate of fire

And I don’t want that.

4 shots/sec and 35 damage is too similar to Ashe’s 4 shots/sec and 40 damage

Bastion doesn’t have a scoped mode that does 85/170 though.

sound too similar

Not if you make Bastion sound like an AA gun with it’s hard hits.

This is all going to look fine to the Bastion-Haters, objectively the overall DPS is a net nerf they don’t know and don’t care that Bastion’s recon mode has 1.25 degrees spread and this is a really significant improvement, this would be a 75% higher density of fire in max spread

In order to not be a knockoff version of Soldier, he needs his own identity, his own source of power in recon.

that means rein can walk forward with his shield so much further before charging.

But with Bastions new HP, he can survive charges now. That’s a huge blunder for Rein.

This makes Bastion extremely weak against shield break of both Orisa (2x 900 shields) and Rein.

Not a problem if the Bastion is more mobile.

A huge fact you’re neglecting is that buffing his HP needs it’s own drawbacks. Or else you just redid the 35% IC mistake.

So yes, some power is being taken away from Sentry, but he is also getting 1.5x HS, so that’s more damage against tanks.

There is a reason Bastion has 300 ammo and 15 damage per bullet. So he can shield break and then do sufficient damage.

But by buffing his HP, you are turning him into a rofl machine unless you add drawbacks. You are neglecting that fact, which is the sole reason behind 35% IC being so OP.

I don’t want history to repeat itself.

You need more than 50% headshots just to break even. This is an absolute net nerf on the least picked hero in the game.

Because it’s scaling back his TTK on both him and his enemies.

That’s to even out his tank HP. You seem like you just want to reap the benefits without trading in some power for it.

This is just adding in weird exceptions to the game.

Which feels necessary to prevent cheese.

People shouldn’t need to read a list of disclaimers full of arbitrary exceptions

Well that’s a fact of life. Are you writing a guide for all the Bastion players to follow, where you teach them each and every place to set up as Bastio? No, so this is far fairer than you’re making it out to be.

There’s not even a dissertation on which heros counter Bastion and in what ways.

You’re going to have to find a less arbitrary way to weaken Bastion on the payload and in symm strategies.

Nope, my idea is perfectly solidified, and your only counter argument is that people will have to learn that Bastion slides off. That’ll take like 1 match on a map with a payload to learn. It’s not teaching them calc 2 equations.

[BastionBabǝ-1672]

It’s -51 -51 -56 -56 -56 -56

Math at 3am isn’t healthy, I know.

[AlphaVI-21848]

did, does not let me do it

[TREB-21513]

It’s because his firerate is being cut in half.

Okay, is this how this is going to continue? Because you didn’t just cut the fire rate in half, the damage per shot has gone up 75%. This is going to be really weird if you act like you only said one thing.

It’s really proposing nothing to just halve the fire rate to have no spread with damage per shot staying the same, Bastion can already do that. If you tap 4 shots/sec the spread will never bloom out.

And my point of 1500 damage before a reload is other heroes who can move just as fast as Bastion in recon will take far longer to deal 1500 damage due to the need to reload. Bastion in recon mode would be stronger than you’re really considering.

It’s either that or Knockoff: 76.

That’s a false dichotomy. Your proposal is not the only proposal.

Bastion doesn’t have a scoped mode that does 85/170 though.

That’s as irrelevant as saying “Bastion doesn’t have anything like helix rockets” to imply he’s nothing like Soldier 76

You don’t want Bastion to be like Soldier 76… yet all you’ve done is propose to make him too much like Ashe.

In order to not be a knockoff version of Soldier, he needs his own identity

This IS as distinct an identity as Tracer or Sombra’s full auto weapon is distinct from Soldier 76’s fully automatic weapon. A fire rate of 6 shots/sec makes Bastion most unique, totally unlike any other hero in the game and a fire rate that will be very similar to WW1 maxim guns or BAR machine guns.

One thing we shouldn’t lose sight of is that Bastion has a sub-1% pickrate and he doesn’t need a net nerf or neutral change, he needs an overall buff.

Not that 350HP (incl. 200 armour) is anything like 35% damage reduction. That meant you had to deal over 460 damage to Bastion or far more if low high hit-rate damage, that is not where we are going.

For example, 350HP (200armour) can still be killed in the same number of shots from Hanzo’s storm arrows. He can still be “one clipped” by Tracer blinking behind him and shooting his blue critbox.

The recent Fan the Hammer buff didn’t decrease the number of shots it took to kill any 150hp, 200hp or 250hp hero with a stun combo. The only non-tank McCree does better against is Bastion. So Bastion damn well should come out of this better off against McCree’s stun+fan combo. With 350HP(200A) Bastion could just barely survive a stun+fan combo with 10hp when the new armour rules enter the game. Right now a stun at close range is a death sentence for Bastion.

I don’t think you quite understood my point about how the 1.5x headshots will most of the time only get Bastion back to where he is right now. Overall he would be nerfed.

It’s just ridiculous to propose net nerfs to the least picked hero in the game.

But by buffing his HP, you are turning him into a rofl machine unless you add drawbacks.

Ohh I think I see the problem here.

You think I want him to have 350HP(200A) and still keep any amount of ironclad.

As a great frenchman once said:

“Non”

I thought I made myself clear that the proposal of 350HP(200armor) is on the condition that Ironclad entirely disappears as a passive ability. Bastion will take damage identically whether in recon mode or sentry mode.

Of course 20% IC and 350HP… that would be OP. But that’s not what we’re talking about.

But the whole point is to get rid of IC for a variety or reasons:

• it makes healing from allies too effective as enemies deals 10 damage, allies only need to heal 8 damage
• it puts too much reliance on staying in sentry to “not die”
• It’s a needless complexity to players trying to plan ahead on what damage they can take

A big part of the problem with 35% IC is how people exaggerated it… but it’s going to be hard to exaggerate +50HP and a higher proportion of armour right at the same time everyone is pushing the meme “armour is worthless” just because it’s relatively less good. For example, such a HP is almost identical to Torb when overloading and he is not considered particularly hard to deal with despite a much smaller hit box than Bastion.

Also, with IC gone as a passive ability, Bastion may get a passive ability that entirely depends on him working far more by himself and not with any shields.

Because it’s scaling back his TTK on both him and his enemies.

Spin it however you like… you’re proposing a nerf for the least picked hero in the game.

it’s a nice idea that every other hero in the game gets their TTK nerfed… but we all know that’s not gonna happen. This thread is about Bastion.

You seem like you just want to reap the benefits without trading in some power for it.

Yes.

What part of “he should be buffed because his pick rate is so low” don’t you understand? You want to trade so much it’s a net nerf!

Giving up IC for more health and armour is a side grade for sentry, but it’s an overall buff. He’s pretty much just as tough in sentry mode (f he also gets a self-repair buff), but he’s overall far tougher in recon mode. See. An overall buff. A hero that has a pick rate currently around 0.6% might be brought closer to the theoretical average pick rate of 3.4%.

Well that’s a fact of life.

This is a video game.

You don’t have to make the rules tedious and arbitrary. The rules can be intuitive and natural.

And even in life things don’t happen arbitrarily, I actually want the game to have more internal consistency, like life. Not arbitrary like a hero who clearly stands on steel legs that must dig in is slipping around while no one else does.

You could at least propose it be made slippery for everyone, not just in the one case you happen to care about.

Nope, my idea is perfectly solidified

I’m not the one to judge if what I say is perfect, the same standard applies to you.

[AlphaVI-21848]

god i swear, anything in this game is a counter to bastion, and i say COUNTER,

likle idk, phara that was countered by bastion,
is now aCOUNTER TO BASTION !

[AlphaVI-21848]

btw , bastion never gets any assits ? normale ?

[Weylin-11173]

One of the things I dislike about Bastions current state is that he’s the size of a tank, but with half the HP.

I’d like to be able to play them as a general DPS, but they seem to be entirely balanced around being pocketed by a shield tank and a healer as part of a comp revolved entirely around him.

If you’re just casually playing as him, you’re really going to have a bad time. Add on top that players will heavily prioritize him and camp spawn to keep him off the field. I once won us the game by keeping two of their DPS camping me at spawn while my team fought a 5v4 the entire match…

[ChibiFox-11511]

One of the things I dislike about Bastions current state is that he’s the size of a tank, but with half the HP.

I’d like to be able to play them as a general DPS, but they seem to be entirely balanced around being pocketed by a shield tank and a healer as part of a comp revolved entirely around him.

Bastion is literally the same size as Reinhardt… And yet, i’m supposed to just play like a Soldier 76? I think not.

If you’re just casually playing as him, you’re really going to have a bad time. Add on top that players will heavily prioritize him and camp spawn to keep him off the field. I once won us the game by keeping two of their DPS camping me at spawn while my team fought a 5v4 the entire match…

I once did the same thing… Though it was with a high level Tracer.

I got pulse bombed and obviously utterly destroyed, the moment i respawned i got stuck again. Then camped after that… I swapped to Widow and literally got rid of her as i was walking back. x3 Though she wasn’t there to help her team during Overtime, I was.

[Weylin-11173]

Would it be bad if he could be played like 76?
More armor, but no helix burst, no sprinting, and no shooting while healing.

I just hate to see him being used entirely as a turret, and would like to see it a bit more 50/50.

[ChibiFox-11511]

Would it be bad if he could be played like 76?
More armor, but no helix burst, no sprinting, and no shooting while healing.

I just hate to see him being used entirely as a turret, and would like to see it a bit more 50/50.

It wouldn’t be bad, but when he does commit to staying completely immobile, while also being the size of a literal tank, he still needs to be impactful enough to demand respect of his immediate area.

Which right now, she does not.
Right now, a Hanzo can stand about three actual feet from you as long as there’s a doorway, and poke you to death.

That’s the problem with Sentry… it needs to hit HARD when it does hit.

[Weylin-11173]

I’ve wondered if he could get an “E” that swaps ammunition type?
Like, he’d have normal bullets with high direct damage, or explosive rounds that have less DPS, but can damage around corners to deter corner-peekers, at the cost of self damage if used on people right in his face.

[ChibiFox-11511]

I’ve wondered if he could get an “E” that swaps ammunition type?
Like, he’d have normal bullets with high direct damage, or explosive rounds that have less DPS, but can damage around corners to deter corner-peekers, at the cost of self damage if used on people right in his face.

Honestly a better way to keep people from getting close is simply Headshot damage… Even if you had to reduce Bastion’s over all Sentry ammo capacity just to add such a thing (back) into the game.

[anon69660964]

It would be interesting, but I’m of the mind towards keeping Bastion with his current ability kit aside from his Ironclad. TREB was mentioning a good alternative to ironclad.

[anon69660964]

Bastion acts as a shield breaker, reducing ammo for inconsistent head shots doesn’t seem like a good trade, but that’s just me.

[Kristal-11786]

Chibi HAI! Guess what happened today, sis!

[anon69660964]

Recon Configuration conveys it’s purpose well. A transformation used to get from point A to point B, with B being the place where you go into Turret Configuration. You have access to the assault rifle in Recon as a means of self defense, like D.Va or Mercy’s pistol. It’s a deterrent, not his source of DPS. It’s like trying to play Battle Mercy or Meck-less D.Va, it’s funny, but inefficient and not what pistols (or Recon) is used for.

Edit: I know it’s a little broad/generic, I’m just trying to get a point across. Recon is for moving/repositioning, not to be a major part of Bastion’s DPS.

[Weylin-11173]

His Recon gun is pretty decent as far as DPS goes, at long range you can kill quite quickly if you land headshots. The only downside is just how huge Bastion is.

If recon’s model was smaller, to be somewhere between an attack hero and a tank, it would be more in line with his 300hp, and not get hit by every single pellet from a reaper on the far side of the map.

[ChibiFox-11511]

Chibi HAI! Guess what happened today, sis!

What do?
Now i’m interested. Also it’s an oddly good feeling to have so much activity in this thread again…

---

His Recon gun is pretty decent as far as DPS goes, at long range you can kill quite quickly if you land headshots. The only downside is just how huge Bastion is.

If recon’s model was smaller, to be somewhere between an attack hero and a tank, it would be more in line with his 300hp, and not get hit by every single pellet from a reaper on the far side of the map.

Honestly they should just up their health pool if we want for Recon to feel better… make it feel like the actual deadly omnic it’s supposed to be, and now even squishier than D,Va’s mecha.