They don’t seem to be… I assumed they’d instantly think it was a garbage buff, and that “Sombra will be useless now”, and it looks like I was right, at least for a fair amount of them… I’ve seen a couple threads about that
Not being able to use them at the same time is what isn’t an argument.
Can he use Recon and Sentry at the same time? No. Are you saying that having a Recon rifle mode isn’t of benefit to him? We could just take it away, all he does is walk out of Sentry.
How about if we gave Widow an ability to draw 1 set of Reaper’s shotguns. She can’t use them at the same time as her rifle. That wouldn’t be a buff?
You wouldn’t be asking for it if it wasn’t supposed to be a buff to him. Because I can’t use X while using Y, doesn’t mean having Y as an option isn’t beneficial.
The only one of those that’s any real trade-off would be losing IC. Completely. And even then you’re still leaving him with all the other buffs, PLUS a better overall Sentry gun.
Which…you didn’t address that part.
you said adding tankmode on top of another buff to a different mode as if they could be used at the same time. It’ll make him more powerful but a buff to sentry won’t effect tank or the other way around.
Sure, remove ironclad. Some people want that anyways so I’m absolutely fine with that.
And? That’s the point of a buff. To make a hero more powerful. You’re saying adding more positives than negatives is bad but THAT’S THE POINT OF A BUFF. Also 1.5 seconds to transform into sentry is still a huge tradeoff outside of ironclad.
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No, I was saying it as if considering all the parts. Not just one. I’m sorry if that was unclear on my part.
But buffs to Sentry and Tank can’t be treated like the combination of buffs doesn’t matter because they aren’t in use at the same time. That was the point.
I don’t mean better than now, better overall Sentry than it was even pre-rework.
In other words compared to pre rework;
Buffed Recon (retained)
Buffed healing (retained)
Buffed Sentry (overall better than it was)
Gains Tank mode as a base ability
New Ult to buff all the modes. (basically, his current ult plus options)
He didn’t and doesn’t need that much buffing over what he was.
If it raises the overall skill ceiling, then… Yes.
Bastion might just need THAT Much, to be even Viable In higher ranks…
Unless you are against Bastion being Viable in higher ranks for some reason… In which case…
Aka, Recon that can actually hit the target you are firing at… Old recon was a MESS.
Even Roadhog Was buffed, so he could move while healing… There is no place in this game anymore for static based healing.
Those two things are the only good things to come out of the failed “Rework”
And even at that, what Else They did during that rework, left Bastion nearly unplayable. So to include them in some kind of “Buff list” Is a moot point.
At most i would consider those two “Buffs” QOL By today’s standards.
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The devs said that’s why they changed it, because sentry was still underpowered before and died too fast. Honestly, what they could have done was only add 20% ironclad to old sentry and it would have been perfect. One more rocket/grenade/arrow/whatever else does 120 damage to kill without excessive protection. This means his transform speed would have still been 1.5 seconds and his ammo would be 200.
What’s wrong with having tank on E though? Most everyone has all buttons filled so he’s one of the few missing an ability and this would provide a little bit of versatility and small burst as well as he already has 3 modes. It doesn’t make sense to lock one of them behind his ultimate.
Basically, it works well with his kit without direct effects on eachother (the mobility indirectly effects the other modes without other massive overlaps).
It makes sense and would fill the missing spot and would allow you to use all of his modes.
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That’s part of the problem. When Sentry is that strong it doesn’t -just- make better aim more rewarding. It makes him even more rewarding of ‘spray and pray’. It drops his skill floor as well, and he doesn’t need that. Maybe I’ll put together a post on why later.
But for the moment I’ll simply say I’d be perfectly fine with him being more viable in higher ranks. But NOT at the cost of making him oppressive in lower ranks.
Yes it was. Buffing his Recon was a good thing.
Please understand that I was addressing the totality of all those things I listed. Not saying that any individual one was bad or undeserved.
What Roadhog can do isn’t relevant to Bastion’s balance.
Nevertheless, see above. I was talking about the whole, I didn’t say the healing buff was a bad thing in itself.
I only included buffs in that list. Already received or proposed atop them. None of them are moot.
You can consider them whatever you want. But a 25% spread decrease and 20% magazine increase to Recon are straight up buffs. As is being able to heal on the move -and- not having damage interrupt healing. Those are all significant improvements. I think they were a good idea to give.
Trying to portray them as ‘just QOL’ is…even more than less than unhelpful?
I do agree that Sentry was overnerfed. I just don’t agree it should have had zero nerfs, much less be made even better than it was before.
It’s like you are showing us our shiny new Seat we put on our Bike, Saying it couldn’t possibly be a Bad bike, It has a shiny new seat… Why improve it more?
But our bike is still missing it’s wheels. -.-
Yes i’m horrible with analogies, no i will not apologize.
If i’m telling the truth, the only buffs i have ever wanted are:
- Lowered Sentry Spread.
- Sentry Headshots.
That’s it.
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Can you show me when/where they said that? Genuinely asking. Because if so it would run quite contrary to what the Dev comments on the changes were.
Developer Comments: The goal of these changes is to move some of Bastion’s power from Configuration: Sentry to Recon, while keeping its sentry mode a strong option, especially versus tanks and barriers. Overall, Bastion should feel stronger and more flexible with these changes.
That clearly states the opposite. That they felt Sentry needed some power -removed- and moved to Recon.
IC was intended to be some measure of compensation for that removal, by adding survivability instead.
I’m not arguing the results here, just the reasoning and intent. They never said Sentry was underpowered to my knowledge.
My opinion?
It’s unnecessary. He doesn’t need another base damage mode. I see it mentioned often as being about giving him mobility. That’s hogwash. If you want to give him mobility then you give him a mobility tool. (Which I think IS a very good idea btw)
Three base modes (styles/methods) of damage makes him even more difficult to balance as a whole. Which is something he really does NOT need. They are already struggling with the two he has.
They also said Mercy was Fine, and that NO Form of deathmatch would ever be in Overwatch.
And here we are now.
The devs don’t have to say Something for it to be true… In fact, they can say the opposite, and it still could be true, as in the case of Sentry’s Power.
They get things wrong sometimes… And moving “Power” From Sentry to recon was one of those times…
What does that even mean, yea?
It’s not like they lowered one clip, and raised another…
What “Power” Was moved exactly?
Other than making one more accurate, and the other Virtually useless?
What if I counteroffered with:
- A buff to Sentry spread. (But no headshots.)
- Can keep IC.
Buffs to IC:
- Applies at the start of transformation to an IC mode, not the end.
- Tank Ultimate gets 30% IC instead of 20%
An actual mobility ability on E usable in Recon.
[I’m not against helping Bastion! I think he needs some. Just…not the sort being generally requested here.]
Chibi - I’m not interested in getting into a debate with you over what the Devs are right or wrong about. I never stated a belief in their infallibility. That wasn’t at all what I was addressing.
Terran made an assertion regarding the Dev’s stance on Sentry. Presumably as support for his position. I pointed out that their statements when making the change were the exact opposite.
That’s it.
That was the worst decision they could have ever made. Almost nobody wanted anything of the sort. Just look through this thread or pretty much any other and most Bastion players and non Bastion players alike don’t want his power being put into recon being a “primary” mode. Why can’t both work well on their own? Why can’t they both be “primary”. As I said, you’re only using one at a time and their difference was supposed to be damage and mobility, not “tank busting” or “barrier busting”.
I don’t care what Blizz wants anymore, I want what the majority of people who want a change, want. reduced spread and headshots. That is the most basic of changes they could do that’s not some weird change nobody wanted or needed that they came up with. I know I’m bashing them a ton but if they would just listen for once he wouldn’t be in this situation.
The devs need to listen to what the players want. I have a few polls with about 800+ votes on one of them and the majority of the votes are from non Bastion players and the top 2 voted changes were reduce spread and add headshots in sentry.
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they’re struggling because they don’t listen to the community. Popular ideas are popular for a reason. The balance can be tweaked and everything but they just throw anything we say in the trash and make up their own stuff and as you can see that essentially hasn’t worked ever.
I get that you’re frustrated. With the state he’s currently in, how long he’s been there and the lack of any word about him.
I don’t blame you one bit.
But I think deep down you know better than the implication that an idea being popular has any bearing on if it’s a -good- idea to do.
Well I’m for it which means it’s not only because it’s popular. I like the idea, I think it would be balanced with some possible changes to his ammo swap speed or ironclad, and a lot of people think so too. I don’t like it because it’s popular, it became popular after I liked it. Basically I like it and I have people who back me up.
Better explained would be I don’t like it because it’s popular, I like it and it’s popular.
I agree that an idea being popular doesn’t mean it good, it means it’s accepted. However, this doesn’t mean that popular ideas are bad.
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I get that you like it 
How popular it is just isn’t any measure of it being good. As if they should listen to it -because- it’s popular. Which seemed to be the implication being made.
(Or that it’s bad. I took that for granted as understood, but true as well DrClan.)
What I’m saying is they can take the idea, then work with it, instead of hearing “it needs a little survivability” (which was the more popular idea on the old forums and 20% ironclad is obviously not OP) then came out with “you wanted to nerf its damage and spread too right? You didn’t? Who cares.” Now it takes longer to do less damage and you can’t even hit tanks at 20-25 meters. It doesn’t matter if you survive if it doesn’t do its job.
Not really related but I just find it strange that people think that increasing the DPS on Sombra’s gun would make it OP but current Bastion’s sentry gun has all the stuff that I want for Sombra but you guys think it’s underpowered. 
| Item | Bastion | Sombra |
|---|---|---|
| Fire Rate | 30/s | 20/s |
| Damage | 15/bullet | 8/bullet |
| Eff. Range | 35m | 15m |
| Spread angle | 3 degrees | 2.7 degrees |
We can see from the table that the sentry gun is much superior in terms of fire rate, damage (almost a crit for Sombra), range and a small disadvantage in the spread angle. Sombra’s used to be 3 before it got buffed to 2.7 but her fire rate is still low enough that it’s still quite RNG vulnerable.
Anyway, back to talking about Bastion, Is it possible that the problem isn’t on Bastion’s gun but on how vulnerable he is to corner peeking due to zero mobility which some of you have brought up in this thread?
Just throwing an idea out here but what if the Sentry Gun does something similar to the Ratling Gun in Vermintide 2? Getting hit by the Ratling gun shakes the camera so hard that it feels like like you are firing McCree’s peacekeeper 30 times in less than a second that it makes corner peeking at close range damn near impossible.
Obviously the effect will be lower at longer ranges due to the spread so Snipers aren’t that affected due to fewer bullets hitting them but it does give Bastion an incentive to provide covering fire.
Good? No good? 
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I also pointed out that it’s an idea that is generally accepted by this community of Bastion players. Not all if us like every part of it(including me), but it wouldn’t be one of those reworks that splits the community in half, at least not the Bastion community.