If Blizzard reworks Bastions kit because of all of these kneejerk “Bastion sucks and needs changes” comments, I will never forgive this community. I will continue to enjoy Overwatch through other heroes, but this community would never be forgiven.
So you’re saying that Bastion should stay extremely unreliable and inconsistent? He feels pretty awful to play. I don’t care about his pickrate, that can stay where it is for all I care, but he just feels awful to play with his current spread in Sentry mode. It’s pretty much like playing Sombra, but staying behind your team, and not moving while you shoot, only it’s worse because his spread is larger than hers.
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Don’t put words in my mouth.
I have put enough effort into explaining why Bastion is just fine in this thread. By explaining why/how I do well on him, how he needs to be played to do that, and the fact that most Bastion players try to play him like traditional DPS and therefor fail to tap into his real potential.
If they rework him, he wont be Bastion anymore and if they buff him, even as a Bastion main myself, I know he’ll be overpowered.
Bastion is not unreliable or inconsistent… the players who pilot him are.
It was a question…
Anecdotal evidence isn’t really all that strong… What rank are you? What do you define as “doing well”? Do you play with a coordinated team? Do you “do well” in all games, or just some? All of these play a pretty large factor in evidence like this…
What do you mean by “most Bastion players try to play him like traditional DPS”?
We’re not really asking for straight buffs. Most of us want Ironclad gone or reworked into something the player has to manage, and his extra 100 ammo from the rework gone. We want Bastion to be a glass cannon. If you’re not smart about your positioning, you should pay for it, but if you are, you should do well.
Bastion’s spread in Sentry mode is literally closer to D.va’s shotguns than it is to his own spread in Recon mode. He has shotgun spread on a gun that he can’t move with.
You know, he might be “horrible,” but he’s not exactly unpopular. The fanthread for Bastion is the biggest thread in forums.
I know you’re frustrated, but try to be patient with the devs. There’s only so much they can do at a time, and the community is pulling them literally in every direction at the same time.
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A rhetorical question, which is in-fact a statement in the form of a question.
I don’t play competitive yet. Yeah yeah, I know I know, you’re going to pull that condescending “Well, you couldn’t possibly know then” on me.
And you could be right, maybe when I try competitive finally, I’ll be far less effective and die far more. While I do expect to die more than in Quick Play, I am very confident that my overall effectiveness will not be affected.
-I currently average 10k damage/10min and 6k Hero dmg/10 min and that number actually keeps going up (Because I keep improving), not down.
-I average 2.8 eliminations per life (Anything more than 2.0 means you’re pulling your weight).
-I average 17.3 eliminations/10 min
-I average 43 seconds on fire every 10 minutes. Basically, I am on fire at least once in almost every game.
I’m not bragging here, as I compliment Bastion for these stats, not just my ability to play him. I am gawd-awful at any other hero. Bastion is the ONLY hero I can put up these kinds of numbers on. You can compare my Tracer stats (My previous main) to my Bastion stats. It’s an overwhelming contrast in performance.
Anecdotal evidence only has to prove one thing… that something is possible or viable. In this case, that Bastion can perform well. In that particular regard, statistics are an inferior way to judge the heroes potential, because statistics can reflect a pool of incompetence and other facts while anecdotal proves potential.
I’d say about 1 in 7 games I struggle and ALL of those games are losses in which my team was incapable of holding off the opponent. There’s nothing Bastion can do against a 6-hero rampage when his whole team keeps getting sent back to spawn in droves. So I mostly chalk this up to bad luck and bad team compositions.
They try to dive all the time or they sit in the back-line and just spam sentry the entire time. They don’t put any emphasis on shield-breaking, they don’t target specific targets by proper priority (For instance, they shoot at Orisa while there’s a Pharah or Mercy flying overhead) etc. These are all things that are almost exclusive to playing Bastion and also a playstyle that mirrors most DPS players.
I don’t disagree much with this. But you’re in a minority here, as most people spouting off this “Bastion sucks, change him” nonsense are talking about overhauls & reworks and I’m really fed up with all of that. No, I do NOT WANT “Tank on E” and it saddens me that so many people on this forum are asking for that.
I have no issue with Bastions spread unless I’m trying to shoot long-range. In that case, I don’t expect Bastion to be a sniper. Bastion needs to be mid-or close-range (Preferably mid, but close-range is sometimes viable). That’s just a matter of where Bastion belongs. It’s part of his role in game.
He’s certainly unpopular, but we’re just persistent that thread is like 80% just 10 or 11 people
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I run the Mercy equivalent of that thread, 10-11 people is still awesome. I am just baffled why a walking machine gun attracts more fans than a Swiss doctor-angel that cares after everybody xDDDD
Edit: I am pretty sure more people hate Mercy than they do Bastion, just read the forums on any given day. xDDDDD
No, it was a question… I wasn’t sure if that’s what you were implying, or if you meant that he doesn’t need a rework, just minor tweaks and buffs.
I don’t play comp either, but do you know about where you place? Like where are the people you get placed in QP with?
I’m not actively wanting them to do it, but it’s a pretty good rework. Tank is Bastion’s most fun mode, and being able to do that whenever you want would be really fun. I don’t think he needs it, but if they do want to rework him, he’s pretty much the one hero in the game that that rework would actually make sense for.
I’m not saying he should be able to counter-snipe, I’m saying he should be able to put enough pressure on a sniper that they need to move rather than just sit there tanking his damage for multiple seconds and shooting him back. And his spread affects him pretty hard at mid-range too, here’s a post about it. At just 25 meters, he’s already at a maximum of 50% accuracy, and that’s on a stationary training bot, which is larger than a majority of the cast… By 35 meters (which is where his damage falloff starts to take effect), he’s already down to a forced 30% accuracy.
Bastion as a character is more interesting due to the fact that he is a former machine of war, turned peaceful thanks to the rehabilitation of Ganymede. Mercy on the other hand is just a doctor who spent years working on medical science and became a battle medic. It’s the iconic look of Bastion holding Ganymede that makes him more popular, the universal simplicity. Think R2-D2 from Star Wars, the character doesn’t talk, it’s his actions which endeared fans.
Gonna need to agree with you because this is true xD, I hace killed tons of Bastions thanks to completely disrupt their tanks thanks to Halt. Then me and my team can just kill him nice and easy.
I have no idea, but I did notice that the overall levels of players I’m playing against are rising. I used to get at least 1 lvl 1-5, a few 6-20’s, and at least 1 60+… now I’ve noticed it’s 1 lvl 6-20, a few 20-50’s, and a 70+.
I disagree. I enjoy Bastion for Sentry and self-heal. If they make him “Tank on E”, he is dead to me.
No. Discarding his Sentry mode on E does not make sense for him, because it’s his niche ability. Bastion is not Bastion without Sentry.
This seems like a matter of you not liking the way Bastion needs to be played. If a sniper has you pinned down, you have to figure out a way to deal with that. I struggle with snipers as well, but I respect that that is one of Bastions counter-balances.
You can’t just expect a character to have no problem-heroes or strategies. You can’t main Rein and then try to claim that Reins shield needs to be stronger, just because Bastion keeps breaking it. That Rein main just needs to accept that that is a balancing predicament to playing Rein.
25 meters/75 feet in this game is pretty far. I barely consider that mid-range. Seeing as how Bastion has such potent damage, 50% should not be discounted as meager, even if it’s half his potential.
No, it’s not lol
Don’t shoot at things past 35 meters/105 feet.
This is exactly what I mean by people not playing Bastion to his strengths. They refuse to try the strategy of staying within a range that plays into his strength and end up performing sub-par because of it.
Stay close enough to your enemies so that you don’t get damage dropoff, heal constantly, and keep moving instead of camping in Sentry for long periods.
If you cannot manage to get close enough to your enemies to do this, then something is wrong and it isn’t Bastion. If you refuse to try to get close-enough, then the thing that is in the wrong is you, not Bastion.
Levels don’t necessarily indicate rank, only how long the player has played Overwatch. It can be a good indicator, but it merely indicates about how long the player has played. Some may have just been playing QP since season 2 or 3.
Sentry mode is on shift…? I’m not saying replace Sentry with Tank, I’m saying add Tank as a normal ability… Yeah, if they remove Sentry, Bastion is just done as a hero.
I said he shouldn’t be able to kill them (unless they’re just dumb…). He should be able to put enough pressure on them that they have to take cover for a second, allowing him to escape.
Not really… go into the practice range, and sit 25 meters from the target, you’re pretty close… it’s about the distance from the defense ledge on first point Anubis to the choke once you factor in the angle as well. a² + b² = c² and all that.
Yes it is…? They’re have a pretty freaking big cross section, go look at one.
You shouldn’t aim to fight at 35 meters, but if it’s in his effective range falloff-wise, then it should be in his effective range spread-wise too.
That’s a bad idea… if you stay close to your enemies, then your transform times are going to get you killed. Bastion needs to be played as a mid-range DPS so that you have a viable escape option.
Walking up to the enemies in Recon, then spending an entire second transforming is an excellent way to get yourself killed.
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Then why not Tank on Shift? Taking Sentry off of E will only manage to throw Bastion players off.
Then you have the problem of Bastion being fine without some extra ability that could easily make him overpowered.
If they’re long-range, then no. That’s a problem that Bastions need to just accept and face.
Okay, so a little closer than I envisioned, but the real issue here is downplaying 50% damage. Even at 50% damage, Sentry still hits like a truck. It’s not like it becomes weak or useless at half damage.
Honestly, I haven’t observed such a damage dropoff at that close of range. I never even differentiated between damage from that distance and from face-face. So I’m kind of calling into question whether or not that 50% of quite the exaggeration. Even if it isn’t, it’s quite obvious to me that 50% is still sufficient.
I don’t see it. They have more girth than most heroes, but they’re also floating and shorter than most heroes.
And why exactly should it be? Because Bastion mains want Bastion to be better? Or is there an actual non-biased reason behind this?
My stats say otherwise.
Again, keep moving, don’t stay in Sentry for excessive periods, hide and heal non-stop. Seriously, even if you take 15% damage in health, fall back, heal it, attack from a different angle.
While my deaths of 6/10 min is higher than I’d like, it’s certainly not bad considering I’m getting almost 3 times as many kills. So obviously my death to elimination ratio would indicate that Bastion potentially doesn’t have a survive-ability problem in mid to close range, since mid to close range is where I spend most of my time.
I have no problems escaping as long as I don’t sustain too much damage. Part of playing Bastion is knowing to withdraw when you sustain any amount of damage.
You’re trying at act though there’s no grey area between walking up to an enemies face and a close to mid-ranged position.
Sentry mode isn’t on E. It’s on Shift. Like, right now, it’s on shift.
So he should just tickle them at long range? They should see a Bastion and just laugh?
Why even have all that damage if he can’t use it? It just makes him feel miserable to use.
They’re roughly the same height, give or take a little, but the width matters a lot more here.
Why would you have the effective range be so far away if he’s not effective throughout it? It’s pretty much just lying.
According to this, I’m in the top 5% of Bastion players in QP. I don’t play right up in the enemies faces, I play further back, behind my team lines, to what should be Bastion’s logical strengths. You can’t have a low mobility hero, and expect them to be right up in the enemies faces, that’s not how this works. I play safely, what you’re describing is a more reckless playstyle, which doesn’t work in higher brackets.
Once you get higher up, you can’t do that. If you take 15% of your health, and you’re not already in a safe position, you’re going to die.
Bastion works moderately well in lower brackets because the enemy is more disorganised, and they don’t focus fire. Once they start doing learning to focus the Bastion, you simply can’t play him anymore.
Hahaha, Yeah, I completely forgot that the first day I started playing this game, I changed the key settings to where I could use Tracers Blink on E.
Maybe that plays a huge part in why I do well on Bastion. Maybe having Sentry on E makes a huge difference.
Well, if it’s amusing to them, sure. But if Bastion doesn’t want to be laughed at, he needs to get his minigun-havinass into closer range.
His damage is just fine, this is just rhetoric.
Yeah, if you measure from the ground instead of their bottom.
If he’s not effective throughout it, then that’s not his effective range, now is it?
Okay, touche. Nice stats. But one thing first: I don’t credit Overbuff with much accuracy. Half of its stats are off. For instance, it says I have 7.87 in deaths, when in-game it’s 6.16. On top of mathematical inaccuracies, it also doesn’t count private profiles, of which are many.
Based on your stats then, I’d then argue for why aren’t you happy with how you’re doing? I’m certainly happy with how well I do and it’s not as good as you.
I can’t help but feel like this is a matter of you thinking Bastion should be able to carry a team every game or something. I don’t think any hero should do that. I really can’t help but feel like you’re having main bias here and just want more for your main than it needs.
How do you kill 3x more than you die, put up 5k+ damage, and come out thinking your hero is bad? I can’t really wrap my mind around that one.
I expect that it will get harder, but I don’t feel inclined to just take your word for it that it will get THIS hard.
But to do that, he needs something to get the snipers off of his back so that they don’t instantly kill him the moment he stands up. Which is why he needs to be able to put pressure on them.
You may be fine with missing 90% of your shots (taken from your profile page), but I’m not. Mine’s about 80% by the way, whereas normally it’s closer to 60%, but would probably be higher on Bastion since I’m better at aiming when stationary.
They hover like 6 inches off the ground. Well enough to call “roughly”, especially considering they’re much fatter than most if not all squishes.
Now you’re understanding what I’m saying. His effective range (the range at which he is supposed to be effective, defined by his damage falloff ranges) is 35-55 meters. But as you can see, his spread gives him an extremely poor accuracy at those ranges.
Because he feels inconsistent. That’s what I’ve been saying the entire time. Collectively, we (the Bastion mains just on the forums, Astro, Terran, Chibi, DrClan, etc) have put in a few thousand hours on Bastion, I have about 100 myself once you include the arcade and such. We have plenty of experience all across the brackets to say that he feels inconsistent.
I never said that. He shouldn’t be able to carry a team on his own, that would be awful. I’m saying I should be able to hit the things I point at. I’m saying he shouldn’t have a forced 50% accuracy because he’s not a shotgun. If they want to lower his damage slightly to make up for the better spread, then fine, go for it.
I play safely, and have a good team that I play with.
You don’t have to, you’ll find out soon enough.
Did you ever play the old Bastion? Before his rework about 2 years ago? If so, then you know what Sentry should be. Ironclad as a passive damage resistance was a mistake. It was somewhat okay at the time because the game was still developing, and the only new heroes we had were Ana and Sombra, but looking back it was a mistake. They gave him too much damage resistance, then took an appropriate amount of damage potential from him. Then they took away about half of his damage resistance, and didn’t give any damage potential back to balance him out. If they had gone with something simpler, like a damage resistance on self-heal, or an armor overheal, then didn’t take as much damage potential away from him (namely his spread), he would be in a much better spot.
What the hell did you smoke ?
That’s gold right there xD
You’re not wrong. 20 characters