Can anybody explain me why do most people on these forums think barriers were ever efficient against snipers in Overwatch’s history ?
Is this a elo issue or something ? I’ve been playing this game since 2016 and I’ve never heard of this before. Why 2019 Overwatch players think shields are a good counter to a good Widowmaker ?
Do they realized this just zones the entire team that will most likely die right after getting dived ?
Why do people think Winston, Hammond or Dva (well with current nerfs Dva I could understand) are not good against snipers ?
Snipers are supposed to be harassed, jumped on, distracted so they can’t aim and shoot at people. All it takes is a mobile tank and either a DPS or a fast healer (Lucio, Moira, Mercy).
I don’t want to brag about ranks or something but as a Master support since season 4 or 5, I’ve never seen anyone think shield tanks such as Rein, Orisa (or Sigma more recently) were any good to countering snipers.
It just makes Rein hold his shield forever and it breaks at some point while Widow is free.
A free Widowmaker is always gonna win. You ignore her, you lose. Simple as that. You can’t just “get past her” from a distance, she must be dived and shield tanks can’t do that (unless Rein has a leap ability I’ve never heard of).
Have some people missed a few classes when it comes to Overwatch strategy or these “nerf snipers” spam threads are basically trolling and insisting until devs cave in and nerf snipers so people that dont’ want to learn how to counter them are not bothered with this ?
Thanks in advance for your constructive answers. I really want to know why this is.
How ? When the rest of the Widowmaker’s team attack the Orisa or Rein, shields are gonna break eventually and the other players can’t stand there without a shield. If they do, Widowmaker can just sniped them one by one (if she’s any good).
Snipers must always get dived to be countered efficiently.
I don’t recommend Rein vs snipers because its a stalemate in the sniper’s favor.
Orisa is good. Widowmaker has low barrier break so Protective Barrier helps prevent one-shots. Orisa can contest Widowmaker at range because she has no fall-off, instead her gun is balanced by being projectiles. This would be a problem at long range, but snipers slow down to aim. Also Halt shenanigans. Hanzo’s barrier break is too high for Orisa, for him you want Sigma.
Sigma isn’t great against Widowmaker but he’s good against Hanzo. Hanzo is often in Sigma’s effective range and I can block his arrows with my Expiremtal Barrier until I get him. Kinetic Grasp is great against Storm Arrows.
This is a very bad example. The Winston is not moving or being close to the Hanzo. Snipers can’t aim right when harassed in melee. Plus, Winston would be having a healer or a DPS to help him kill the Hanzo.
Winston also has a shield and can play with it to avoid a lot of Hanzo hits.
Are you really serious with your example or simply mocking me ?
No one would die like on your gif, unless they’re playing the game for the very first time or in the lowest ranks on OW.
Barriers and Balls both work well against Widowmaker, mainly because they don’t have heads. No one cares about a dedicated Damage character dealing less than 100 DPS to these things, and the barriers provide more than enough time to take cover before they break.
Hanzo’s a different story, since he’s one of the better barrier breakers at range, but it’s debatable whether he should be considered a sniper.
Orisa is good against Widowmaker for her self-survival but her team cannot stay behind her shield forever. If all the Orisa’s teammates are around her it’s catastrophic and simple for the enemy team to zone them pretty easily.
True but it all depends if the Hanzo is playing frontline or not. If he’s on a height, he won’t be aiming at Sigma, yet at a squishie and Sigma won’t be able to reach him (primary fire pretty short ranged) and as I said beforehand, Sigma’s shield is gonna break sooner or later so his teammates can’t hide forever behind the shield.
All tanks have a big hitbox. At close range, Hanzo doesn’t stand a chance against a Winston and another teammate (dps or healer). He can even kill the Hanzo himself if the Hanzo is not pocketed and far from his team.
Barrier cover the team for a very short time. Who’s gonna take care of the enemy snipers while the entire team is hiding behind a breakable shield ? No one.
And if the snipers are free, they’re gonna win sooner or later.
Ignore a sniper and you lose. Harass a sniper and they’re useless and can’t get any value as a DPS.
That’s how I’ve always learned the game and it’s always been efficient. But as for any hero on Overwatch, very skilled players can still win if they’re good enough.
Even if there are counters, some heroes can still win against their biggest counter. I’ve seen a Junkrat once that was able not only to survive to a Pharah but to harass and kill her (the Junkrat used their mobility quite well and had a good aim with primary).
It’s on a CD. Winston jumps on the Hanzo once and takes away 50 HP or more. Hanzo leaps away and shoots. Winston uses his shield for protection, waits for another jump pack to be available and jumps again on Hanzo and so on… until the Hanzo dies.
While doing this, Winston keeps the Hanzo from being in the battle and shooting at squishy DPS players.
Yeah but somebodies’ gotta contest the Widowmaker and sometimes the team needs a barrier too, and other things Orisa provides. I am unsure whether Orisa can still do this on ptr with her weaker barrier though. Kinda doubt it.
Oh yeah, totally. Still, I think its a pretty neutral match up that lets me also focus on other things besides Hanzo, too.
Winston’s leap is on a 6-sec CD if I’m not mistaken. Hanzo’s lunge ability is shorter but it can’t leap as far as Winston’s Jump pack. It’s all about who plays smarter and who has the best teammate that helps.
I’m not saying Hanzo can’t kill a Winston but I also don’t agree with people that think that barriers were the best strategy to winning against snipers. Ignoring snipers was never the best strategy to winning against them.
You can still win against snipers with shield tanks only but it would take the DPS players from your team to get the job done and take care of the Hanzo or Widowmaker that is camping somewhere outside the objective.
How can shield tanks kill the snipers anyways ? Explain it to me, please.
Edit : Hanzo’s lunge is on a 5-sec CD to be more accurate.
Winston and D.Va have two of the lowest mechanical skill ceilings in the game. Their hard-capped, choice-based skill ceilings are very, very easily out-matched by the pure-aim limitless skill-ceiling that widowmaker has meaning that she can more easily out-skill them than they can out-skill her. And, if she pushes her mechanical aim high enough, Winston and D.Va stop being counters altogether.
In order to suppress Widowmaker, D.Va and Winston have to stop tanking the other 5 members of the enemy team for their own team. And during the time they transition their positions from tanking for their team to putting the Widowmaker in check, they leave their team in an effective 5v6, giving the enemy team a window to get a pick of some kind. Which, if they can, causes the Winston or D.Va to have just lost the teamfight for their team (since, I’m assuming the Widowmaker will have Grapple on CD to escape).
The 2 second nerf to grapple will help with this, but only to a point. Widow still has all of the advantages in the matchup.
What you’re describing here is players being good at their role. This doesn’t have anything to do with the heroes themselves. Winston has the lowest mechanical skill ceiling, true, but he can be very good when played with good teammates that have good chemistry.
That’s why in most of my games, we’re able to counter snipers with a Winston or another mobile tank such as Hammond (or D.va at least before her nerfs) => good team play.
The only times I’ve seen a Winston dying to a Widowmaker was when he failed his jump or didn’t get any assist from healers or a DPS that would peel for him.
I still don’t agree with you. How do people kill snipers behind a shield anyways. What do people do when the shields break when the Widowmaker is sniping freely from the other side of the room ?
You don’t have to take two off-tanks. A Winston and another shield tank would do the job.
Not necessarily, it’s more like 5 VS 5 and the Winston harassing the sniper. I don’t necessarily think that 2 tanks would always win against a team that only has one. It all depends on the players and their positioning and skill while they play.
True but Widwomker has been nerfed now. Winston can jump twice on her while she can escape just once. Plus, while she’s harassed by the Winston, the Widowmaker can’t focus on her job as a sniper most of the time, unless she’s really good but that again, you can’t blame on her if they’re good.
Not every counter-hero works if the enemy player is really good. There are tons of examples of players not being able to kill the heroes they’re supposed to counter. It’s just people being better than others.
Well, I don’t know. I still think Widowmaker is not so much of a problem. At least not in my Master gamess, maybe because I’ve been playing for 3 years and know the maps by heart or maybe I was lucky with the Winston and Hammond players I got.
It’s got nothing to do with how many off-tanks you’ve got. Where did you even get that?
It’s about the opportunity Widowmaker gives to her team where they get a few seconds of 5v6 while winston or d.va are in-flight.
Still doesn’t solve the problem of Widow simply dropping into her team. Winston/D.Va cannot followup against a widowmaker who is in the middle of her team. They’ll feed and die.
Considering that most of the complaints against widowmaker I see come from players above diamond, I’m thinking that you’re some kind of unicorn. The higher she goes, the worse she gets because people/coaches have been saying that mechanical aim tops out around mid diamond.
