To have fun. Relax, take it easy, shoot stuff when you feel like it. 1v5 the enemy team. Some things never change.
You can’t act like 15-30 minute queue times have zero impact on player retention and expect people to take your opinions seriously.
Last I saw “Add a new Support hero” which gives you a few weeks of improved queue times. That’s not a long term solution, and you yourself admit that the ratio of DPS players to Support players will quickly become to where there’s way more DPS players than Support players. But somehow you can’t connect the dots on that one.
Or were you talking about your “More Players = Queue Times magically disappear” solution.
Because yeah, that’s kinda sad if you actually believe the number of players is the issue, and not the ratio of role popularity.
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I do not fall for this trap for a second, they switched the format to 5v5… if tanks are getting far more value than any other role its not because they should be doing the damage of two people… its because there design is broken, Instead of just using this as an excuse for letting tanks be overpowered how about adjusting damage/life/healing So tanks can brawl without overshadowing the 8 other players on the team.
Currently the Tank Diff in OW2 makes playing some games more frustrating then they are worth, because one role has so much greater impact on the game than the others
Ive been mostly playing sojourn and im often getting 18-20k and the tanks are at 10-14k
Tanks having high damage on the scoreboard doesn’t bother me, I do think it’s kinda weird that when a tank just ints at you, chances are you are probably going to die if you don’t have mobility or a hard CC.
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Tanks typically live longer as they (supports) put more resources into them. You live longer, you do more damage per 10. This happens a lot in Overwatch 1, where there are two tanks. Generally speaking, the off tank is going to lead in damage unless the dps are playing a hyper carry (Hanzo, Ashe, Echo) or a damage over utility hero (Junkrat, Torbjorn).
This has literally always been the case. Orisa was leading in damage back during her meta. Sigma players believe they are gods gift because of their medals.
Hell, Moira could easily lead damage with her damage orb alone. Most of it was trash damage, naturally. Never made anyone believe she was doing “too” much damage.
This is just what happens at platinum average, at least. Maybe in your higher ranked games, you actually created space for the dps and they normally lead. But the average damage values are all available on Overbuff and you can plainly observe them.
More DPS players will leave OW completely if the role they play isn’t fun, impactful, and if they can’t do their job properly. Which is to get kills. Not to tickle the enemy till they eventually fall over 2 minutes later.
No one likes waiting either but , the class being weak is worst.
Fun>wait times
I’ll remind you of my 2 solutions again.
Which actually fix all the things you were supposedly straining your brain to figure out.
- Make the support class to be more like combat medics that other fps games have. Not 100% alike but in that direction.
Similar to what they did for the tanks. Less shield bots more combat focused.
Less heal bots, more combat focused.
It worked wonders for the tanks and the same will happen for the supports.
Have healing be an option they have not the main thing they do. - The other solution is more dramatic, which is 1-3-1, and then you can buff the support to be more powerful. Only having 1 actually makes buffing them make sense.
Again, worked for the tank role.
I didn’t have to break my brain to come up with these. Just used common sense.
dps are fun and impactful in ow2. that’s why more players are playing dps than any other role
The DPS role has always been popular and nothing will ever change that.
That’s how it is in all games which feature a choice to play classes.
The point I was trying to make to him is that his solutions are always to not care about the DPS class and to give them the short end of the stick in order for the other classes to be more popular. Because to him popularity means everything. Even admitting that his changes will make a lot of players leave.
Which is basically admitting your solutions are heavily flawed.
Any change can make players leave but making the biggest player base that the game has unhappy and most likely to leave the game is worse than upsetting a minority group that could eventually leave the game.
Solutions can’t please everyone, but I do understand both your points and where you’re coming from. on the one hand, dps have far more players, so you can afford to lose a few, on the other they are the majority and the majority needs to be happy.
At least my solutions have already shown to work with the tank class.
So I am positive there is a high chance that doing the same or something similar for the support class will work as well.
And the DPS players which are the biggest portion of the player base are helping the tank class tremendously because now the tanks are attractive to play to DPS players.
My solution brings more of that.
tank’s damage pales in comparison to dome of the dps damage
It’s almost like Fun and Impact aren’t the same thing. And anybody who played Overwatch 1 Tanks, this should be blindingly obvious.
Good thing you didn’t spend too much brainpower on bad ideas.
- More firepower is good, less healbots etc. But if we’re keeping track with your previous “All Roles need Equal Impact” then you’d basically also then be following that up with giant nerfs to the Support role to pay for that Firepower. Which would greatly weaken the desirability to play the role.
- So Support isn’t desirable enough to play right now, so instead of having 2 Supports going up against 3x attackers, you got 1 Support going up against 4x Attackers. And you don’t see how that would make the current “Supports are heavily targeted for assassination” be worse than OW2 is currently? Like if they had that 1x Support hero, you’d better have something like a 400hp Ana or something. Which I’m sure you’d also freak out about.
With my changes:
Supports = DPS lite. have healing, have the best abilities and the best ultimates in the game.
Tanks - big damage potential , sometimes more than actual DPS heroes, high health pools, second best abilities and ultimates in the game.
DPS- a bit more damage than the other roles and sometimes this isnt even the case. Weakest abilities and ultimates in the game.
DPS will still be the least impactful role. Just like people in the forums like.
Having 1 support on a team they could buff the 1 supports health 250-300 hp. Increase their healing to 1.5 to 2X of what they have now. And thats it. My goal isnt to buff the 1 support to make up for the missing 2nd completely. Just like having 1 more powerful tank now doesnt make up for their not being 2 of them.
No hero should be impossible to kill either. This is an FPS game. All FPS games in history are about killing the enemy to accomplish objectives. OWL is no different.
Killing and dying is part of the game. Being constantly in spawn is what happens in FPS games.
Where does the idea that this game should play with both team having a pillow fights that lasts for 5 minutes with no one dying. I know people dont like to die but if thats the case, why even play games like OW where the main goal of both teams, is to kill the other in order to complete objectives.
Why play a racing game if you don’t like speed or driving. If all you want to do is peacefully cruise around at 20 miles an hour site seeing.
So basically the current status quo, but with more Support buffs?
More like support playstyle “changes”.
Less heal bot more combat medic. Where healing is an option they have not something they focus 100% of their time on.
Even make healing have cooldowns, so teammates wont scream at them for not continuously healing them all game. Teammates would know that healing is on a short cooldown.
Then you can implement a global self health regen to all classes.
So we’re back on the “Buff Support damage, but also huge nerfs to the Support role”.
But you wanna cover that up with euphemisms.
I feel like I’m topping the dmg as tank because tank is easier to play or at least more forgiving than dps. I’m not dying from a rnd peak.
Sounds exactly like the complaints people had with the tanks when they heard they were going to be changed for OW2.
“Less shields, there will be no protection”
“No more tank synergies”
“Tanks will be the focus of all the enemy team and will blow up in 1 second”
“NO ONE will want to play tank”
Ect ect. Usual doom and gloomers.
What actually happened is that tanks are super fun to play now, they dont die instantly, they are the ones with the most carry potential in OW2. Got players from other classes to enjoy the role. Players that would never touch tank in OW1.
Were some tanks unhappy, yes. But the overall tanks are doing great in OW2.
Similar thing would happen to the supports. Heal bots would be furious. But the rest of the supports, DPS and tank players would be more attracted to the support role.
Not really. OW2 needs to attract tank players, not drive them away, and if that means Tanks need to be kinda busted to offset the shift to 2-2-1, then so be it. While it’s true that not every DPS has meaningful ranged damage, most do. Range remains the primary weakness for most Tanks, and for many of them except the former Dive tanks (DVa, Winston, Hammond), mobility is a major limiting factor too that DPS often don’t have to deal with–though these characters in particular aren’t as robust on the offense side either, and as others have pointed out, a lot of the damage they’re doing is trash damage. That’s to say, DPS still have an essential role in flanking & securing kills that Tanks cannot fulfill nearly to the same degree.