Are Tanks dealing too much damage?

General Discussion
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I want to preface this with saying that I actually am a tank player through and through (so this isn’t some whiney DPS player rant). I have always mained tanks and I play them all to a GM/Top 500 level. I’m not saying that to toot my own horn, but because it’ll be relevant in a minute.

Anyway, the talking point I want to put forth is this: “Are Tanks dealing too much damage”? Now, I know a lot of you will scoff at this notion, but have you noticed who the top damage dealers in nearly every lobby in OW2 are? At least in my anecdotal experience it seems to always be the tanks well ahead of everybody in terms of damage per 10 minutes.

Now, of course certain tanks are worse offenders than others, but generally speaking I manage to lead every lobby in damage no matter which tank I choose. You might argue that it’s because I am a higher MMR player than most, but I’d challenge that by saying that the matchmaker generally puts me in lobbies of other players near my skill level, and the other tank usually outpaces his/her damage players too.

So, even if Blizzard’s internal stats do back up that the tanks are generally dealing more damage than the other roles (most importantly, the damage heroes), is this actually a problem? Everyone is going to have their own opinion on this, and admittedly I even go back and forth on this myself, but I kind of think it is. For years I always said “well tanks lack range, not damage, that’s the important distinction”, but not all DPS have ranged lethality either. Even with the ones that do, I still find myself easily outpacing them by a mile.

Obviously, it’s okay for a tank to lead a lobby in damage if that player is genuinely performing better than everybody else, but I feel like it’s every game. I will find myself having more damage than both my DPS combined at times. Again, I am not trying to brag here, I feel like this is happening consistently and I am merely trying to highlight a problem.

I know any time a player asks for nerfs (especially broadly across a role), it never goes well on these forums, but I am hoping that because I actually am a tank player, people might think about this a little more honestly and open-mindedly.

To be clear though, I am not saying tanks shouldn’t be lethal and have teeth, they need to. I’m not insinuating tanks need drastic doomsday nerfs, as sometimes a little can go a long way. That being said, if supports lead lobbies in healing, and tanks lead lobbies in every other meaningful category, what is the point of the Damage role?

I know this has been a bit rambly, and I am aware the response to this post will probably be extremely negative, but I feel this topic needs to be discussed and I am willing to tank the forum hate. So please give your honest opinions, but I ask you do it respectfully and kindly. If you disagree (with me or somebody else), no need to insult their person.

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I have also noticed it. For context, I’m probably playing around a diamond or low masters equivalent in the ow2 beta. Its probably 50/50 if I can keep up with the tanks for damage in higher rated feeling lobbies, and if I’ve got a really good tank, I won’t come close.

From a dps perspective, it doesn’t actually bother me and I don’t feel very intimidated by their damage numbers. I try not to forget how much damage tanks already do in ow1. We just maybe don’t feel the impact of it because so much damage is spent trying to overcome the resources of other tanks. Tank isn’t my most played role but it’s my highest rated and, at least as offtank, I’m very used to always having gold damage. It’s just my expectation at this point to have a lead of 1-2k per 10, even in ow1. So it feels natural that, by designing tanks in 5v5 to all function like offtank brawlers, it’d stay that way.

As far as “what is the point of dps”, I suspect if there were no role limits, there literally would be no reason to pick dps over gigatanks. I’ve always found the “point” of each role to be very blurry though, so I try not to think of it too formulaic. To me, the roles we have never felt designed with a specific intent behind what they should be doing (or maybe it’s better to say what they shouldn’t be doing). We launched with a nonhealing support, a no longer existent defence role, tanks with no damage mitigation, and a dps with a shield (ok, in beta). Fast forward, we have a support with a (weak) shield, a dps with the highest health shield in the game as an ult, still tanks with no damage mitigation, and tanks or supports with primary fires that can rival dps.

So to me it’s like, no overthinking, the roles are really just there to gently guide people into expectations. As long as we’re in this world where you can’t stack 3 gigatanks, it doesn’t even matter to me if a tank is a better dps than a dps.

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Tanks do a ton of damage because they have more oppurtunities and usually easier ways to deal deal damage

Winston can rack up a ton of damage, but we all know that doesn’t necessarily translate to tons of meaningful damage or kills

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I think tanks damage output is ok for a few reasons. First, tanks do more trash damage than DPS. Doing more damage as a tank doesn’t necessarily convert to more eliminations. Second, there’s only one tank so you really need to be a threat or you’ll be ignored. Finally, tanks last in the fight the longest, so in any losing fight they will have the most damage output just because they die last.

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Damage dealt doesn’t guarantee kills. It only means you have been ult farming the other tank.

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Do you think Overwatch has more in common with League of Legends, or Team Fortress 2?

If the answer is Team Fortress 2 (because that’s kinda obvious) then clearly Overwatch is primarily a Class Based Shooter.

So MMORPG/MOBA logic isn’t really all that relevant.

The point is to equalize the Fun between roles.
If that means you get some DPS getting butthurt about other roles having more Impact.

Let them quit.

Since the alternative is horrible queue times, which would get a ton more people to quit.

Like there’s really zero counterpoint to that argument (That I can think of). And I’ve probably thought about this subject more than the rest of the entire forum combined. So if you got a real substantial justifiable counterpoint, I’d be genuinely impressed.

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Doomfist feels like his doing too little damage the rest of the tanks seem fine in terms of damage maybe orisas is too high idk?

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To be the weakest class.

It’s ok when tanks or supports do a lot of damage or get lots of kills. No one bats an eye.
When it’s a DPS, red flags everywhere, and the witch hunting to nerf them begins.
And it’s their only job, and they are not allowed to be good at it.
Especially if a dps is a popular pick, they will be complained about till nerfed. Just because they were decent at getting kills. Their job.

Your takes are always bad because of your bias againts the DPS role.
You can’t give the short end of the stick to the main group that’s plays your game.

I gave you 2 solutions, that you just brushed aside because of your bias.
My solutions actually fixes all the issues.
Even though they may anger a few. Unlike your solutions that will anger the biggest player base.

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Eh, not like this was different in ow1. I usually always have top elms and dmg in that game and this one too.

Only exception was when you had a dps with a mercy pocket and the tank doesn’t get resources. Like a sojourn with a mercy pocket is VERY hard to out damage.

I don’t really think its much of a problem because tanks have more of a raid boss role in ow2, they aren’t going to be fair fights between tanks and other roles but they have limitations so you can avoid fair fights.

Only one that’s a bit absurd is sigma, his damage output even when you aren’t doing well is insane.

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I would say yes, but that is also true of supports. Tanks do a lot of damage, yes, but they also lack the follow through dps have. Too much damage going on in general though.

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depends on the tank, tanks that have pretty much no tanking abilities like junker queen and hog no, the rest maybe yes

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Personally don’t think that “tanks deal too much damage” is a problem. I still think the solo tank is playing for 2 people, so they have to do more in general. It also helps with the feel of the tanks. You really feel like a raidboss and have the freedom to do a lot of things and thats one of the reasons why tank is so popular right now I would say.

If they out DPS the damage heroes than be it. Its also in OW1 the case in a lot of times so nothing really changes.

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I feel like Junker Queen is kinda of an okay level of damage. Particularly for the way she engages. It’s close ranged and it often requires a full use of her kit unless she gets some meaty shot gun blasts in someone’s head. It doesn’t happen that often for me but I ain’t no Super I guess. Sigma does a ton of damage by the end of games but it seems like a lot of spam damage from AoE burst. Reinhardt has big swinging moments of damage. Hog has a one shot after hook but generally he’s spamming shots into the void. So, I don’t know, it seems they do a lot of throw away damage. Doomfist does feel weaker sometimes compared to other tanks. I think they don’t have to be that damaging if they’re quite mobile or tanky but there are moments where fights seem never ending either. I don’t know, it’s a tricky balance to find the right levels of TTKs in this game.

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OW2 Beta has super loose MMR matchmaking, however, This argument doesn’t hold nearly the water you want it to. I’m a mid-high plat player AT BEST but I routinely get Masters and GM players in the lobby in the Beta.

Also, as an anecdotal counter, if your lobby has a Sojourn and she isn’t leading in damage by a TON then she’s bad. She should easily be 20% outpacing anything else in the lobby.

And, as a final rebuttal, nobody actually knows how to play this version of the game yet. It’s so different in so many respects, I don’t think it’s the best platform for making decision like this without the oodles of data that Blizz has on hand. Maybe it reflects exactly what you’re worried about, then fine. But I still see dps players standing tall and trying to out duel a Rein running straight at them. That’s not the Rein having too much damage, that’s the dps being stubborn, foolish and stupid. Turn and run, reposition and outrange, thank you.

My point isn’t that you’re wrong. I think you probably are, but I’m willing to accept you might be right. But simply that your anecdotal evidence isn’t enough to go on here.

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JK top DPS every game she’s in.

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In my games, it is either dps or the tank. Sometimes one of the dps will outshine a lot but that is just poor matchmaking I guess.

Anyway… it is not surprising to have gold damage as tank in OW1. Tanks always did damage, and they do good damage in OW2 too, and I am okay with it

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yeah but not everyone would leave. only the whiny ones. didn’t every dps player say the same to supports when they complained?

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If you are doing more damage than both DPS combined you have some bad DPS. I also frequently top damage in my games but not by that much. This is entirely a bad DPS issue (or possibly a self brag).

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As others have stated, Tanks generally have an easier time applying their damage, and their damage is competitive with the damage-role. Likewise, Supports also have competitive damage with the damage-role and tank-role, and so everyone in Overwatch - regardless of roles - can do very competitive levels of damage generally exceeding or meeting up with the rest of the crowd if they focus on doing it.

I do want to point out a few things too that seem like a popular take, but isn’t really true when correctly analyzed.

As long as Winston is doing damage for at least 4 seconds (or even less than that) he can nail a kill on any 200 health hero.

This also isn’t true to certain extents; at least within the classic OW Tank structure, new Tanks may lack some lethality (Doomfist, Orisa), but many Tanks have offensive tools to help them guarantee kills.

Again, not necessarily true. Most Tanks do enough damage and have ability that will usually guarantee them a kill or several. While Doomfist and Orisa, at present, make lack some lethality, Junker Queen has all the tools and ability to guarantee some kills, as do other Tanks.

Getting back to the topic at hand regarding the three roles…

The main crux of the argument is “what good are DPS if everyone can do competitive damage?” and the answer is; there is no good reason to bring a Damage-role hero into Overwatch or Overwatch 2. If you were not restricted, you are better off at bringing another Support or Tank into your team as they offer more abilities while still bringing plenty of offensive power. In Open Queue in OW2, a popular combination is 3 tanks and 2 Supports, or 2-1-2 combination of two tanks, one damage, and two supports.

When designing OW, Blizzard’s development team background hailed from MMO-design ideas rather than more classic RPG design ideas. While they understood than in MMOs, those focused on dealing-damage are a core part of the team (and thus teams are restricted to how many you can bring), they did not understand the importance of value brought to the team beyond damage.

Take WoW’s Rogue’s ability to crowd control targets via Sap, or another class’s ability to offer something of value to the team beyond just damage. While WoW’s metagame eventually saw Sap being less and less useful over time; the option was still there. But they, more or less, disregarded that when they originally designed the Offense-role in Overwatch. Though they did give some utility to the Defense-role heroes originally - many of them still have these abilities, like Recon Arrow, Teleporter, Infra-Sight. These were later abandoned or move to other new heroes within the support-role as Offense and Defense merged. Brigitte taking Torbjorn’s armor packs and turning them into repairpacks for healing and armor overhealing (later scrapped because it became too powerful).

Ultimately, it isn’t that the Damage-role is not viable, they are certainly powerful heroes and they can do a lot of damage. It is that they just don’t offer anything else of value to the team, and this is what led to GOATS, or the three-tank, three-support composition. That format is still as viable as ever even now.

In any RPG or MMORPG, every class has to be able to do something than just bringing damage to the team. FF14 understood this, Ninja boost the damage power of the entire team with their backstabs. Dragoons can bring a buff that boosts the critical chance of entire team. Pure damage dealers are extremely rare, and those that do exist tend to be so much more powerful than anyone else in terms of putting out damage. Overwatch does not follow these design, and they tend to make their Tanks the most powerful and most varied (despite their limited number), units in the game. And for good or ill, they’ve had to reconcile with that fact when designing OW2.

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I think it’s sort of inevitable with the new 5v5 format. With one player now taking the role previously populated by two people, the tank heroes need to be considerably buffed to compensate. Hence, now they do an exorbitant amount of damage.

That said, my personal opinion is that Blizzard is being very liberal with their use of the word “tank.” In my experience with other games, the tank wasn’t the most threatening player, just the hardest to take down. In OW2 the tank is both, which is a little confusing.

In my perfect world Blizzard would revert back to 6v6, keeping many of the buffs to tank durability, while universally nerfing their damage. I want to keep tank utility in terms of taking space and providing protection, but not have them made into juggernauts that can singlehandedly take on the entire roster.