I kinda disagree since some large fraction of players play on Console. Like 40% at least.
i kind of hated this in world of warcraft. having to relearn classes every expansion, kind of got old. probably because im an old guy and i hate changes sometimes. hopefully it wont be that bad
if i went and played wow right now (retail) i probably be so confused that i would have to basically level from 1 to max level just to learn whats going on. funny thing is last time i played wow i was playing the “classic” version and yea im comftorable with that since i remember the old way of the game
watch people start asking for classic overwatch now if this happens
Random sidenote: anyone else remember that OWL experimental patch that bumped Tracer up to 175 HP, at the cost of increasing Recall cooldown by 2s? That was a funny episode. That video was a hoot; the panel justified giving Tracer 175 HP, the guy behind the Torb changes literally didn’t play the character or have any interest in doing so, and they got details wrong about Mei’s kit.
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You old bastard! I’m old too actually, but I’m obsessively progressive. I get bored fast and want things to always be radically changing.
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i guess im the type of old guy that says
GET OFF MY LAWN
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People will never agree on which skills should be worth how much in the game.
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I should have specified. On PC.
The turret has already been nerfed to accommodate console players. That’s why it’s so useless on PC as the console and pc versions of the game run on the same patch instead of different patches like they used to.
If console players are still struggling to break a heavily nerfed immobile turret and it needs further nerfing then so be it. They better start selling exclusive turret skins for PC players though, because if they nerf the turret any more it’s basically just going to be cosmetic.
So you find as much common ground as possible not start high elo vs low elo tribalism to justify changes that make no sense.
Like sombra is a difficult hero to balance and we will be arguing for hours, but mei is a much simpler candidate, she was never a issue for me at anytime since ow1 and i dont main her, i play tracer who she one shots, but i never felt she was unskilled yet she got reworked.
She needed nerfs maybe when she was picked a lot with high wr with cass, but outside that why ?
I played rein against her too so that whole tanks had it worse doesnt work, and i player from metal to diamond during my time in ow.
Its just that in the name of balance we destroy every unique hero there is.
Who would want to play mei for a beam hero, her whole concept was space control while being smart and for less dmg.
Now you have her primary doing huge dmg.
Its just generic awful.
Mei was a skill full hero the issue was she got balanced first cause she became meta then tanks whined.
That’s not reflective of skill it is just the same tribalism as now.
The people who complained about mei complain to this day.
The people who played mei for fun acutally left, cause she is not full mei anymore.
Its ok to nerf or balance a hero but not at the cost of their identity.
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does the turret mess with aim assist or was that only for bap lamp?
That hasn’t been a thing for like 2 years.
And I’m talking about how every player on every device, is equally important when it comes to their potential to buy cosmetics.
So even if it’s “only 40%” of the players. 40% is a big fraction of those potential paying customers.
Right, but we also destroy them in the name of “high skill”, if people think that high skill means aim mechanics and twitch reflexes then you have a problem for hero design, in that all heroes will have their uniqueness removed until they are generic main line DPS.
I agree.
The thing here was, it wasn’t balance changes, it was trying to make the hero less annoying changes.
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Due to the nature of how input functions yes they will have more value than other skills, as seen with how moira is balanced a good example.
Same way mei primary used to have low dmg.
Its a matter of finding the right value for the effort is what is skill.
Except at that point of time mei wasnt even having a pr in top 6 to be called a annoyance.
Widow is obviously annoying at high elos on a few maps, so you fix it there if possible otherwise ya leave her alone it doesnt matter.
But when you go and remove that whole hero identity for such a niche issue.
Widow is arguably one of the better balanced snipers in all gaming, people even cite her charge mechanic everywhere in other games.
You can ofcourse nerf her tweak her but going about destroying or reworking her identity for a niche case scenario is bad just for annoyance factor when skill scaling is right.
Yes, lets talk Moira.
You have to be ABSOLUTELY crazy good with her to make her work in GM, because she isn’t at all designed for it.
Just because you don’t value that set of skills, it doesn’t mean that set of skills isn’t impressive as all hell, and isn’t crazy hard.
Which is leads to the argument which gets Tracer is being nerfed down.
She requires too much skill in lower ranks, and too little in higher ranks. - There is a reason there isn’t a good mix of heroes in T500, because it is too hard to make the “low skill” heroes work there.
Which is funny, when you think about it.
“Its a matter of finding the right value for the effort is what is skill.” is WHY she is being changed to be easier in low ranks, and worse in high ranks.
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The point is simple is her right click easy yes it is so is 50 dmg right value for it, yes it is.
ya but she rewards more for more effort.
Why cause her skill is much more scalable due to aim being a part of it.
The other heroes arent low skilled, their effort level is capped kitwise.
And the skill then required to actually drop people with 50 DPS is pretty high. You need to be able to survive against people with MASSILY higher damage output to do so.
Except at the high ranks she isn’t more effort. That is why she is always well represented in T500, because she is less effort.
Except that is the reverse of how it works.
What happens is the amount of effort needed to make them work goes up MASSIVELY compared to their value, which is why people don’t play them much in T500.
The skill ceiling is “how much skill it takes to get reasonable returns”. Once you are above that, you are having to put in totally abnormal levels of skill for each extra bit of value you get.
Tracer doesn’t hit that, so people can keep getting high returns on value for extra skill. That doesn’t make her hard in high ranks, that makes her easy, because she hasn’t hit that limit yet.
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sure that’s why 50 is balance for the skill effort it takes.
No she is high value there due to high effort.
Other heroes effort to value is capped but tracer;s is open then can go even more effort if needed for even more value.
Their effort kit is capped they just dont have the horse power for it, why cause they dont open up the skill floor, so player effort is used to make them competent there than hero effort value.
Tracer definitely does, not every grub can make tracer work at those ranks, you dont see samito abusing her he is the easiest example to know when a hero is getting high value for low effort he will probably main them at that point.
High value for high skill effort doesnt mean its easy.
Everyone else is having to put in more effort because they hit their cap earlier.
Right. You have a bunch of cars on a track. You put some people in some really good cars, and some people in some bad ones which don’t have the horse power.
If the people in the bad cars are coming in at the same ranking. They are straight up better drivers than the people in the good cars.
If you need the higher horse power car to even compete, it is because you are not as good as them. They are higher skilled than you are.
But it is EASIER then high skill for less value, like Moira.
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And you can freely raise your cap if you adjust you skill expression scale size as well the acceleration on it path, but also think how it would suit your hero without changing their identity.
See again you are stuck in a tribalistic mode, you are free to come drive the f1 grandpa you probably cant cause you will probably freak out stop it and puke on the sideway.
If you can you are free to ride it.
the issue is you want to ride your sedan but have it perform like a f1 car with zero effort of driving like you see in nfs games hitting nitro button.
No, giving you the god damn maths for it isn’t being tribalistic. I’m giving it to you from someone who makes matchmakers and the like. I don’t give a rats what you are playing, but I do care if can’t understand that a person using a worse hero still landing in the same position is a better player.
So he gets his less good car, and STILL gets the same results as you. Because he is more skilled.
The thing here is, we are not comparing silver Grandpa, and GM teenager. What we are comparing here is T500 Grandpa and T500 teenager.
The grandpa in his Grandpa car is STILL beating the teenager with the latest gear, tuned within an inch of it’s life.
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then why are you complaining grandpa your 4 door sedan is as good as my f1 ?
you dont like your sedan, ok sure come drive my f1 they are free.
Why do you keep wanting to make your sedan into a f1? but should still drive like a sedan.