He moves in a straight line and you can predict exactly where he’s going to go and he can’t change directions mid-air it’s why most high tier players don’t complain about it.
I just want the spread to be reverted and for him to get the old fire rate back, he’ll be perfectly balanced after that.
I’m cool with that.
He needs a revert to before the large big buff and follow on nerf. He wasn’t OP then, he wouldn’t be OP now. But his kit will be nicer to play. (did damage change?)
No you can’t.
If Genji is at 12 o’clock position and jumps over your head you can’t tell if he lands at the 4 oclock or 8 oclock position, and if you look one way and not the other that’s more time you have to scan.
Yes he can.
He.
Has.
Double.
Jump.
Way easier as it’s all on the same plane. No gimbal lock.
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No, his damage is the same. The issue with the spread is that it allows him to play at stupid ranges, it’s just that he can’t kill anything. He wasn’t busted with the 12 spread and fire rate and felt perfect back then, so I don’t see why he would be now.
I don’t think that this is getting us anywhere, let’s just agree to disagree. I apologize if I came off as rude as that wasn’t my intention.
Where were you expecting us to go?
You dismiss people’s concerns, I explain concerns then when we’re just getting any relevant detail it’s time to end it?
In which case you have my vote.
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It’s just that I have a paper to write for class, and we have already established that we disagree on this.
Not when it comes to balance, you are trying to find what is strong or weak, the difference in lower ranks are meaningless for the most part.
So what is he?
multiple people are suggesting that he isn’t viable, you have most of his one tricks gone, the players who were consistently around 4.5K with him dropping to masters, is everyone just bad all of a sudden?
I don’t think I did that…
So I don’t understand why you are replying to me with that.
But you said that…
Which means that the sample is cherry-picked, but that doesn’t mean a lot when it is cherry-picked to make him look better, if it is not that great when you are trying to make it look better there is a problem don’t you think?
No context was given, which makes it seem like he is fine, but he isn’t even close to what a balanced hero’s pickrate would be.
to which you replied with the very answering answer of
Which is in simple terms like saying - “I don’t want to answer”
I don’t want to dig into deep, so I took the first 2 things that I found, you probably did that to other people as well, I just don’t really have the time to look through all of the 369 replies here.
No, that is not the point, I feel bad that you got treated that way, but you are treating other people that way as well, just less jarring way.
Because it is using something like the median, to make something seem better or worse depending on your motives.
You used the median instead of the average to digest Genji’s state in the game, the average shows you how balanced a hero is, while the median shows you his number on the list with real no context, when the context is given it is very easy to see that there are just a couple of heroes which are strong and a lot of heroes which are below average in Pickrate.
I didn’t say you said something like this, I was just giving an example of what lying with statistics is, it can be done in a lot of different forms, I was just giving an example to one of them.
We are just grinding water at this point, it has become more about “where do you want to balance from” rather than “When do you use median and where do you use mean”.
It just comes down to our balance philosophy at this point, I think that it is better to balance from the average pickrate when it is on a balanced hero, and you think that it is better to just go from the median, both have their pros and cons, and it comes down to preference and how you think the game should be balanced.
There is really no point to continue this argument as we are both seeing why our way is better.
Right, but that doesn’t mean a lot, as you have Mccree and Tracer really high up, those two take the pickrates of 7 heroes, so you have 2 at the top and 5 at the bottom, the top is less populated, as you have fewer heroes there because you can’t have a lot of heroes that have a very high pickrate, but you can have a lot of heroes that have low pickrate, picking the midpoint in pickrates is more likely than not to be a hero which is weaker, as more heroes are likely to have a lower pickrate, increasing the numbers of heroes that are weak, making a weak hero still in the middle.
Think about it, you can have two heroes with 16.66% Pickrate, and all the others with 0%, the median is not going to reflect which hero is fine and which isn’t, but you can’t have the top heroes with a pickrate that is less than the average, so if everyone but one hero are the lines of 2.08% pickrate, it doesn’t mean that things that are below the median are weak, only one of them is.
Median just gives you the middle, without how good or bad are other heroes, giving a number of a list doesn’t alone represent his power level, you need to know how the other heroes are to really know what that means.
Saying that a hero has a below average or above average pickrate doesn’t require you to look up how others are doing, since you are trying to find how well the hero is doing in general, not what his number by order is.
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Right, but even IF you went your way, you would have to switch to Median almost instantly, or you would have CRAZY power creap.
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Not really, I don’t think you really understood my way then.
I find a balanced hero, which is the baseline of what I want all the heroes to be.
That hero needs to be around 2% PR give or take 1% at most.
Then buff or nerf every hero to be at the power level of that hero.
It’s pretty much the same as your idea but instead of taking the median I take the average hero, that way I don’t have to deal with power creep or with a role that is overall weaker, which means that you just need to buff every hero in the role, or nerf every other role, which at a certain point is just too much to do without sacrificing the way that the game plays.
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That’s fine, you’re under absolutely no obligation to be here, I don’t like this “oh suddenly they have to leave” to people leaving no… sometimes people DO suddenly have to leave.
Your contributions are valuable but this isn’t anyone’s job.
Not bad. That’s for sure.
Have they? Because Genji’s pickrate is still overall very high.
I was careful to say
But GM is cherry picked because Genji is relatively worse in GM (in terms of pickrate) but still not that bad.
Yes it was, it was clear what was in reply to what.
That’s because it was a loaded question.
And when they said “Please show me the: “disrespectful snide comment”” that was me literally saying “here I am showing what is a disrespectful comment”
It’s like me pointing at a rabbit and saying “this is a rabbit” and they say “Oh yeah, what little rabbit?”
No you cannot answer a loaded question, that’s why it’s a loaded question.
Google how to respond to a loaded question, it’ll be all things like “such questions are purposefully impossible to answer, they’re designed to pass off an accusation as an assumed truth”
The whole point of a loaded question is to try to pass off an assumption as true.
What you’re only NOW looking? After you accused me?
So you haven’t even seen me do it. You’re just assuming I have.
But you said you’re still looking for any cases where I’ve done that.
Median is immune to motives.
It’s… the median.
If I think a clerk has short changed me and I add up the coins in a certain way, they can’t object to how I add up the coins as “well you clearly have a MOTIVE to get more money out of me”.
It’s not motive, it’s math.
Median is a type of average.
It is in context… the context of other damage heroes.
Thank you for making that clear.
But you can’t just accuse me of something without proof and then immediately go onto a very clear example of the wrongdoing.
If you accuse me of arson then recount an infamous arson attack there’s the small matter of how there’s absolutely no evidence I did what you accused me of doing.
How about you treat me how you’d like to be treated, I don’t think you’d like the be accused baselessly. Even if you did do it you’d expect to be told why and you wouldn’t immediately capitulate to the accusations of a stranger on the internet.
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Can you guys just mute him so this thread stops getting bumped? He’s a troll and wants attention, just stop…
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Irrelevant. Genji’s dash + melee locks him out of performing another combo.
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This is monthly I’m talking about
this week and last week he’s been down there among “the worst” heroes
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He’s obviously trolling. Stop feeding him attention plz.
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The context given was GM, for the most part, that’s it, you can’t assume that something over the median alone.
Then you need to either confirm or deny it, show them what you mean.
No, I saw it before, I’m not going to find it again after more than half a day has passed, or at least go out of my way and find more than what I can see quickly, I have other things to do.
Right, but choosing the median after being confronted about average (mean), is statistical bias, as one stat shows something that makes your point seem right.
Mean is just more accurate in this situation as you don’t have big statistical improbabilities, like a hero having 100% pickrate, it is capped at 16.66%, your average will always be the same at ~2%, your biggest number here was 5.7% and the lowest is 0.03%, those are not really big enough of a difference to make you use a median instead of mean, and also, because you have a capped value of 33.33% which is the maximum that the sum of the hero pickrate can be, and it would always be that, the fact that you have a const cap means that you will, more likely than not, have your median below the mean, also the mean doesn’t care about the order, just the number, which is what you are generally looking for when judging a power level of a hero based on pickrate.
Right, I need to get used to that, as in my original language mean and average are the same word, while the median is a different word, so I am used to saying mean and average as the same thing, as usually when I speak to people in my language I don’t get that confusion, I’ll try to use mean more if it helps, also usually when people say average they mean Mean, so people usually understand me even in English.
I need to go and finish some stuff right now, so I may not reply for a while…
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Genji is like the AOC of Overwatch.
In terms of power, actually very little, but somehow so many people hate and fear her and act like she alone can cause big changes.
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Genji has the best ult in the game.
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