Ana should have to choose;

[iDerpyCake-1596]

ana isnt op.

[Xorkrath-1442]

@abfwildman-1562

Anti nade need some to be toned down some way. If the healing reduction was a percent and not a prevention, that would be nice. Or give it a little longer cooldown or smaller splash radius.

@Saber-22958

Who are you gonna save with Mercys 27hps or Moiras 35 hps, meanwhile if you focus on the offensive utilities, it might help more

I think the proper way to balance the 'nade is to remove the after-effects entirely. As it stands, it violates the sort of balancing direction the game has been going in. Blizz doesn’t want big AOE heals that nade provides. And because it does big splash healing plus amps up all follow-up healing, including AOE healing, it violates this principle twice.

So regardless of players’ opinions of the 'nade, yes, it’s due for a nerf. It no longer fits within the frame of how the devs want the game to play out.

And that’s before we talk about how powerful it is to cut teammates off from healing. That is, quite literally, one of the main reasons Mei wall got repeatedly nerfed. Because cutting people off from the functions of their team is exceedingly powerful in a strategic sense that can’t be expressed or understood by numbers alone.

Ana 'nade would be fairly balanced if it didn’t have any after-effects. No healing boost, no healing negation. It’s a quick one-shot of burst healing that also happens to be handy for damaging enemies in an AOE, like mobile heroes like Lucio.

If that isn’t enough for you [this is a general “you” to the reader. Not a specific “you personally”], then your issue is with Blizzard, not with players who recognize the double standards at play and call out the problems it creates within the game.

[Zephrin-11143]

@Skund-2376

at mid and lower ranks it can’t be oppressive because you lack the follow up

@Zephrin-11143

uhhh no. capitalising off anti isn’t hard. capitalising in the most optimal way maybe, but simply capitalising on it isn’t.

if a team fight’s happening, chuck a name at like >=2 enemies that are close to each other. either they go into cover, or they stubbornly stay. in the former case it means less people engaged in the team fight against ana’s team and they just need to keep doing what they’re doing in the fight. in the latter, it means they die because they’ll get shot in the team fight with their supports practically non-existent to them.

in fact you get more opportunities to get >=2 enemies naded in lower ranks because of less coordination (i.e. less timed shield blocks against nade, less coordinated shield cover for anti, less awareness to hide or simply back off for anti, etc.).

@Skund-2376

because you have many way to play around it

supports legit have minimal ways around helping an anti’ed ally live. the only real thing a support can do to help an anti’d ally is to lucio beat.

and that’s the problem here: a main healer with an ability to hard counter her competition —> inherently higher on the support balance hierarchy.

to overcome such a hard countering ability with buffs to the other supports, they’ll need to be at least overturned.

@Skund-2376

I bet many people who believe that nade is so oppresive will argue that Mcree FB is too oppressive

mccree flash bang isn’t a problem at all due to its inherent short duration and how its range limitations allow for more global counterability.

[Tiberium-21518]

I have yet to meet anyone who enjoys Ana specifically because of the nade rather than the way her rifle works.

[ошо-21412]

She does what you said in the post. End of the discussion i guess ? Nade has 4 meter radius which means you can’t both deal huge aoe burst healing and stop all healing. You have to choose between one.

If they did what you said, make him choose between using it as anti-nade or healing-nade and reduced its cooldown, this would make ana just much more broken because changing setting of nade takes too little from ana, she already has to choose to throw it at enemies or teammates. And reducing cooldown for such little nerf(?) would make you cry even more on forums imo.

I said nerf(?) because its even more like a quality of life change, i would love to be able to send my nade to enemies, not having to think about it colliding with my teammates and becoming a healing-nade. And making it healing when i want to.

Please dont ragepost on forums, you end up buffing the character you hate even more.

[Skund-2376]

It’s not 1dimensional.
Yes supports get countered by anti, but if your teammate refuse to take cover, got anti naded while overextending etc, it’s his fault and not the fault of Ana.
You could say the same about Window or MAashe, they counter every squishie, but their is something you can actually do against it, same goes for Ana. OW is a team game.

There are many ways to remove people from a fight.
You know how dangerous discord orb for a maintank is?
A pro player will use Zaryas Bubble to cleanse it, even if it mean she get no charge for it.

If we start to nerf or remove anything that is actually powerful and influence teamfight dynamic OW would be dead.

And about how often it is actually used offensive:

@Skund-2376

ML7 statistic Twitch

First game:
first round Numbani attack:
No fat team wiping nade, no offensive nade which decided the team fight
Mostly used defensively

second round:
Same here and switched late (last 2-3 minutes) from “OP Ana” to “low skill Mercy”

3rd round:
Same here. not teamwiping nade neither
Switched to lucio right before the timer started to run out for first point
After taking first point, switches from Lucio to Mercy
After taking second point switches from Mercy to Bap

4th round:
Starts with Ana no huge team wiping Anti nade again

I’m sure we see a similar picture if we watch more games of ML7
Anti nade is not the constant teamwiping ability, not even close
If you want to disprove me: Find 5 games from this session in which fat nades are the norm

[Meiday-11308]

I think nade should do what it does, but take away the damage that it does.

[NuttyS4Ck-1298]

Discord is stronger than antiheal.

Supports just hate antiheal for some reason bc they like to hold M1 for most of their value instead of using their other abilities with antiheal lands.

Zenyattas discord is catastrophic and nobody complains about. Yet it makes people absolutely melt. Tanks know

[alliance-11289]

Its rare that you hit allies and enemys with nade, it only makes her weaker in Rein Metas and against flankers

[Zephrin-11143]

@Skund-2376

It’s not 1dimensional.
Yes supports get countered by anti, but if your teammate refuse to take cover, got anti naded while overextending etc, it’s his fault and not the fault of Ana.
…
OW is a team game.

so what you’re saying is because it’s a team game, we can introduce heroes that have hard counters to their competition…

cool so what’s your idea for a main shield tank that has excellent shield break uncounterable by other tanks?

how about a dps hero that’s immune to other dps heroes’ damage?

I mean such heroes being inherently better than others in their role is fine simply because it’s a team game and it’s the other roles’ fault for not dealing with them amarite?

@Skund-2376

You could say the same about Window or MAashe, they counter every squishie, but their is something you can actually do against it, same goes for Ana

not a good comparison for you because widow and ashe being able to OHKO consistently is exactly what makes them the top dps heroes and has dominated the roster for quite some time to the point where people had to make entire specific comps to not suffer from them (goats, various forms of double shield). and that’s exactly the problem I’ve been bringing up with ana.

heck even the point about “being able to do something about them” is arguable because unless you’re a shield tank, you legit don’t have anything for a widow or mashe in open maps with little cover like. junkertown A end, havana last point, mecha base point, and many more maps.

@Skund-2376

There are many ways to remove people from a fight.
You know how dangerous discord orb for a maintank is?

unless the discord orb boosted a shot to OHKO-like status, it can be countered through healing. the same can’t be said about anti. i.e.

• the anti’s ally’s probably going to die faster than the discorded enemy who’d have a higher chance of not dying since they can still be healed
• even if damaging is a justification, ana’s better than most other supports at damaging anyways which still brings us back to the problem regarding how ana’s inherently better due to anti.
  • heck ana even gets a head start because anti deals damage which can’t be healed too.

and with how heal-botty OW made supports (and this is pretty much all due to how much they skewed values towards damage and the lack of reliable sustain sources), what else is there for supports to “remove someone from the fight” to prevent them from killing someone anti’ed? oh wait it’s just lucio beat.

@Skund-2376

A pro player will use Zaryas Bubble to cleanse it, even if it mean she get no charge for it.

she’s not a support i.e. irrelevant to the point of contention: anti heal needing more counter play because it inherently makes ana better than the other supports by hard countering them (unhealthy for the game and not balanced).

@Skund-2376

If we start to nerf or remove anything that is actually powerful and influence teamfight dynamic OW would be dead

ok so can we get a support hard counter to ana that can also be a great standalone support that works well with any tank? no because it’d be unhealthy for the game in being completely dominant amongst the supports and won’t be balanced? my thoughts exactly.

[Destrolock-2131]

Agree, but to be fair, orbs itself is one of the best things moira has going for her.

[Destrolock-2131]

Imagine 3 hard counters for every hero.

I’d probably delete the game at that point.

Switch-sim 2020

[Bruhgitta-1193]

What’s so problematic with Ana? she seems fine and not oppressive to me