Algorithm is a disgrace

Ok but you completely fail to understand how is matchmaker working. Matchmaker doesnt care about the Kid. For him is kid just a number. Lets say he has MMR 1800 while you have 2400. You will most likely not be placed in same team as matchmaker is trying to make teams preferably filled with 6 players with ± same MMR.

But ok lets say he will be placed on your team. Your way of thinking is kind of wrong, because you feel like you are expected to somehow compensate for worse player.

That is not case at all. You are expected to play like 2400 player just like he is expected to play like 1800 player. Since the match is even in term of teams MMR, Kid well very may carry you as he will play as 1900 player. He will still be bad in your eyes of 2400 player but he actualy played better than expected and he did his part overperformIng.

On other hand you will play like 2300, underperforming and then you will blame worse player. When in reality he played better than you considering your both MMR.

1 Like

The issue is…

It’s a ladder, and your rank should be based on if you can beat the people in that rank… RANDOMLY.

Not, “Oh, you did well so now you have to be canceled out. It’s only fair.”
or
“Oh, you’re struggling, let’s help you out with some better teammates.” It’s only fair.

Which by the way, IS how it works as we’ve seen over and over for 5 years.
You can actually toy with it. It’s predictable.

The problem with forcing these even matches all the time is the LONG TERM effect feeling like you’re actually just playing to please some robot behind the scenes. What does the robot actually know? Imagine how stupid NBA basketball would be if they kept switching the teams around because someone had a few hot games, stick them with the losing players to try and help them out?

I think a lot of players win more games if they’d just turn off these even matches.

Also, wouldn’t the matches just BE even if they turned MMR off? Why is it needed?

This game tries so hard to force even matches, at the cost of an actual competitive, non rigged system.

Players do not deserve to have their recent play history used AGAINST them for the sake of “even matches.”

Give us a rank. Make matches with it. All this behind the scenes BS doesn’t belong in Comp. It’s a scam.

Not exactly, if you want to climb, you have to beat players above you if you want to take their place.

Read my previous post. This is not how MM works. Matchmaker is creating games where teams have same MMR so most games is fair. You are not expected to help to anyone, you are expected to do your job if you want to keep your elo. More if you want to climb.

Do not compare sport game with teamswhich are set vs game with random players.

Even matches without MMR, hardly. It would be bad to use just SR, because that can be manipulated a lot more easy. Or changed. Leaving two games wont change your skill and it will result in - 100 SR? Was your current skill changed? No it wasnt and MMR is not changing. In matchmaking using SR it would affect matchmaker and thats not good.

Even matches is opposite to rigged system. If system would be forming teams to have better chance to win or lose, thats definition of rigged system.

Its not used against you. Its used to form teams with same average MMR so players can have fair games.

1 Like

Nope. It’s looking at your recent play and forcing an even match with you in it. If you switch to an off hero, and don’t play as well… you will not win games. You will realize that the match was made for you to perform exactly as you have been performing. Until, you log out and come back the next day to easier games. Why? Because the matchmaker is trying to force even matches and in order for that to happen, you will get better teammates in order to make up for yesterday’s crappiness. Suddenly you can win on your off hero, which you’re not nearly as good at. But who cares, it’s an even match, right?

They make matches expecting your recent play. When you don’t play for a long time, and come back. Easy as hell. I’ve seen it many times. That is, until the system gets an idea of how to force an even match that includes you, adjusts and now you’re playing harder matches. At the same rank.

2100 should be 2100 should be 2100.

Not hard mode for current winners and easy mode for current losers.

I’ve seen over and over how the system adjusts to the point where it’s predictable. Oh, we went 4-0 one night? Next night will be impossible games and we go 0-4 due to throwers and leavers. Oh wow, 50% the matchmaker must be good, huh? Yeah, because it FORCED the games based on our MMR.

Players have figured it out. That’s why so many posts are about this exact issue, for four years straight. MMR is used to rig up even matches. You might think that’s a good thing. I happen to think it’s unethical to handicap player’s games behind the scenes while pretending it’s a Competitive system.

Either way, players are sick of it. Maybe Blizz just wanted to make each match as even as possible, but the end result is that players don’t enjoy that in the long run. It feels forced, rigged, and takes all of the fun out of the game because you can SEE when the switch flips and suddenly you get to play with idiots for 5 games straight just because you won a few.

The game is toxic, frustrating, and pointless in the long run. That is due to the MMR forcing matches in an unnatural way. Players KNOW something isn’t right, whether they realize exactly what it is or not.

1 Like

Its like talking to a brick wall. Try to read my explenation how matchmaker works again. And stop seeing it as your enemy. No wonder you are not climbing with mindset like this.

why do you want to write so much, when it can be summarized to “get gud”? simple as that. why dont you tell that to the OP. and all the other threads here.

“In what world is ticking their fan base off better for player retention?”
yep, its not. you know, i know, many players left. i have friend who is GM also left. many hated the game. thats what im talking about, large pile of sr gone in the whole pie, creating imbalance.

“Like your conspiracy on grind being forced doesn’t hold water.”
right. i got it all from here.

Doesnt change a thing, author has wrong beliefs how how matchmaker works. System is not handicapping you.

1 Like

Because I didn’t say ‘git gud.’ I didn’t even say anything close to it. I asked why folks playing averagely and reliant on teammates doing better feel they should climb. Doing average for hour rank is fine to maintain it but one has to be doing beyond that to climb. Trying to turn genuine questions into a silly demand is the weirdest deflection and strawman I have seen in a while.

Hah! I understand your skepticism, but people frequently do get addicted to negative emotions like frustration and anger. Gambling addiction has a lot in common with gaming addiction, and both types of addiction play on the dopaminergic response to frustration in particular. Scientific research bears this out, if you are really interested tell me and I’ll find links for you.

2 Likes

Don’t worry, they know math and statistics better than you. Overwatch University is a degree to many things.

Dopamine is released in response to the winning for a gambler so while you can argue gaming has a similar response in some (I’d agree there), it’s to the winning part. The frustration is a negative part that has the person chasing the next dopamine hit similar to an illicit drug. While the dopamine can condition them to wait out the frustration, it’s not what they’re addicted to. Frustration is never wanted (ignoring adult stuff) by humans hence we go out of our ways to avoid or mitigate it.

2 Likes

I can’t fully explain it, but I remember from my readings that frustration is an important part of addictive experiences. Unpredictable outcomes are part of what makes an experience addictive, and losing is a necessary part of that unpredictability. Dopamine isn’t the only thing that keeps us going, but it is a big component. I don’t know exactly how its release corresponds to winning and/or losing.

I think you would enjoy Adam Alter’s book “Irresistible: The Rise of Addictive Technology and the Business of Keeping Us Hooked,” which explains all of what I’ve said in more detail.

2 Likes

I can confirm the number 50. Unfortunately it’s the number of defeats in a row at the moment.

50 defeats in row? Dude you have to be throwing super hard. Thats achievement even for deranker to have 50 games in row.

1 Like

Winning/lossing streaks would be uncommon if it was looking to make an alternating win/loss pattern, not if it wants to see 50%. Kind of like how when I roll a dice 80 time, I don’t expect to not see streaks. I might roll a 6 seven times in a row. But over a large sample size I would expect to see 6 about 1/6th of the time.

When Kaplan said “We like to see people around a 50% winrate, it means the matchmaker is working” (paraphrased) he means that a good matchmaker will result in around 50% winrate for most players, not that it would force one. If we think about that, it makes sense because if players are in the right skill level, then they should have the same odds of winning as the enemy team and over time that win rate should trend to 50%. Players who improve rapidly will have a higher winrate as their SR adjusts to their new skill level and players who are out of practice will have a lower winrate as their SR adjusts to their depreciated skill level.

Your profile is a great example of this. Your two most played heroes this season are sitting very close to a 50% win rate. That doesn’t mean that you didn’t have streaks, but it is a pretty good indication that your skill matches your rank.

1 Like

I just had one lol :smiley:

84 2205 +26 WIN 1:0
85 2229 +24 WIN 2:1
86 2253 +24 WIN 2:1
87 2279 +26 WIN 1:0
88 2258 -21 LOSS 0:1
89 2236 -22 LOSS 0:1
90 2212 -24 LOSS 0:2
91 2189 -23 LOSS 3:4
92 2164 -25 LOSS 2:3
93 2188 +24 WIN 2:0
94 2188 CANCELED X X
95 2212 +24 WIN WIN
1 Like

Looks like the matchmaker is getting your MMR figured out :slight_smile: Keep it up and keep posting results.

2 Likes

I was higher with mercy before on my other account, In time I should climb to plat, but from there it would be harder.

that’s exactly what it means. lol. you are simply quoting yourself again. i know what you mean, carrying beyond the “average”. and to do that, you need to “get gud”. your question assumes the reader is playing on average.

i’ve lost games where im 83 elims in volksaya, that amount is still in my history, and i know i lost that game. im doing the kills, but the other dps is oblivious, not killing at all. that’s the point of this entire thread and the entire topic of MMR and handicapping with poor matchmaking. these are years old topics. lol, “doesnt hold water” . i wonder if you know what’s going on around here.

Anyone who is stuck at a rank is doing the average for that rank; that’s not an assumption but how the MM works. Just because I don’t buy into your conspiracy doesn’t mean I’m saying simply ‘git gud.’ Abhorrent spelling of that aside, what I’m is the MM works.

I asked if one is only doing averagely for their rank, why do they feel they should climb? Wouldn’t the whole rank climb in that case making it meaningless?

1 Like