its really nothing compared to all the other flankers though…thats the thing.
tracers 240dps, sombras160dps, Doomfists one shotting combos, echos sticky + beam
Considering how often I see McCree just walk up behind teams and flash fan somebody, I don’t think it’s that hard to approach without being noticed
Not to mention Tracer, she gets into teams without too much trouble without any vertical mobility. There’s plenty of options for routes to take on most maps.
Unless you are a god you are not getting these numbers. Especially with the spread of their weapons.
If it is a combo it is not a one shot. Doomfist essentially has to waste most of his cooldowns to pull off these combo which makes it quite punishing if he fails to confirm a kill.
Genji has really high evasiveness compared to others. To clarify, I am not talking about escape. I am talking about in combat evasiveness. The only one of the flankers that compares is Tracer but her movements are locked to the horizontal where as Genji has a decent amount of both horizontal and vertical evasiveness.
Making him a great choice for sustained fights.
I get that he isn’t the best choice at the moment but I believe that has more to do with hero options in other roles. Moira for instance is a pretty big issue for him.
this is exactly why i chose to give him all the DoT stuff and give him abunch more survivability too
Any damage increase to shuriken scales rapidly. Powerful breakpoints occur at 29, 30, 34, 37, 40, and 42. The problem is those first breakpoints, else we’d be fine to push Genji up to 33 damage per shuriken, but by the time you do 29 or 30, you may as well do nearly 34 or 37 in terms of TTK potential.
Remember that Genji can go anywhere from a single to six counts of that damage, via headshots, so every point extra to shuriken damage is up to 6 more damage in a volley.
Let’s take the 200 and 250 HP tiers, minus certain combo offsets to determine how much damage is necessary to one-shot. Values rounded up, since no nominal damage values include decimals. Denominators larger than 6 mean a second volley is required; they merely define lower accuracy points (fewer hits or headshots required within that second volley).
No offsets:
- 200/6 = 34. (All three must headshot.)
- 200/5 = 40. (One bodyshot permitted.)
- 250/6 = 42.
- 250/7 = 36. (One headshot required across two volleys, or two headshots and a miss, three and two misses, etc.)
- 250/8 = 32
- 250/9 = 28. (And this is where we’ve seemingly been designed. A headshot volley and a regular volley together kill a 250-HP target.)
Quick-melee (tier - 30)
- 170/6 = 29
- 170/5 = 34
- 220/6 = 37
- 220/7 = 32
Dash (tier - 50)
- 150/6 = 25 (We can already triple-headshot-Dash a 200 HP target.)
- 150/5 = 30 (30 damage would allow us to miss a headshot for a body.)
- 150/4 = 38
- 200/6 = 34
- 200/7 = 29
Dash-Melee (tier - 80)
- 120/28 = 5 counts to kill (two headshots, one body)
- 120/4 = 30. At 30, it takes only one headshot, two bodyshots.
- 120/3 = 40. At 40, they can all just body.
- 170/6 = 29. At a mere 29 damage, Genji can Dash-Melee-RMB a 250-HP target.
- 170/5 = 35.
tl;dr:
- Give Genji just 29 damage per shuriken and he can RMB-Melee OHKO a 200-HP target or Dash-Melee a 250-HP target.
- Give Genji 30 damage per shuriken and that’s one less headshot he’s required to get to Dash-combo a 200-HP target and yet another free on a Dash-Melee combo.
- Give Genji 34 damage per shuriken and he can Dash-RMB a full-HP Reaper, Mei, or Doomfist.
So if you’re going to bother increasing the damage above 28, you may as well go with 33.
Yeah… I don’t think giving genji nearly 100 damage on his dash alone is a good idea. Nor is it a good idea to give him regenerative shields…
Ashe can do it, so why not genji?
she does it from the safety of her team, dealing 75 instant damage and 100dot, and lets not act like landing dynamite is hard at all…
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lol i picked up ashe and went from bronze to gold just be using that frickin dynamite and hitscan XD
Pharah can fly why not Ashe?
Are you honestly going to try this argument?
Ashe does not have the evasiveness of Genji or the same role. She has Dynamite in order to bypass shields to contribute.
Genji does not need the ability to do 100 damage to potential of SIX people with a single dash. He is already evasive, and has great combo’s.
Ashe depends solely on dynamite and her ability to land precision shots.
Genji has Melee, A great secondary, a dash, and even a deflect to do damage with.
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If a McCree does that over and over to your team, you got problems besides the McCree.
She has lots or horizontal mobility though
As a Genji main in plat, I agree with some of what your saying. But i feel your judgement is clouded due to liking him a lot, the only changes i would make is up dragonblade damage and time and buff both his fires to 30. The answer isn’t to make him opaf. Furthermore, he is a 3 star difficulty and requires some sort of skill and good map knowledge. What separates a good Genji from the bad is knowing you can’t 1v6 as him where in the lower ranks you see the thought process oh i’m speedy I can kill them all, where I feel with these changes you allow 1v6s to be a real possibility. That’s just my take on it
The moment two heroes are close enough for what you’re trying to do not to include logical fallacy, one or the other probably ought to be deleted.
Ashe and Genji are entirely different heroes, with compensatory costs to each of their features and a cohesive kit built around those advantages and disadvantages. Or ought Genji also to be capable of 420 DPS just because Bastion is?
You realize this would still leave Dragonblade at least 23 DPS (maximally 152 DPS) lower than just spamming right-click from slightly closer, right?
That’s up to a 59% dps loss against a single target, requiring more than 2 targets hit every swing in order to outpace headshots…
what i was triyng to say is
you rarely get killed by ashes DoT because it can be healed back up,
so i doubt this would be very different
you are missing the fact that this is allowing you to cleave the entire team and put the DoT on all of them at once, cutting their healing by a quarter and by a flat -12
it wouldnt be meant to be used the same way its used now,
- This is because Ashe cannot bypass barriers. Genji can.
- You have applied a minus 25% debuff on healing for the duration of 4 seconds…making it much easier to confirm kills on bleeding targets.
They are different. Immensely different because the way they apply damage and engage in combat are valleys apart.
almost every healer will still be able to out heal it, maybe exept lucios passive aura
its not as bad as people think, really
Mercy healing a Single target (hope he doesn’t hit more then one person with his dash) would only be able to do 30 hps with this debuff + the damage applied.
Making confirming kills VERY easy. Not to mention making any healer without self heals such an easy target for picks.
You are trying so hard here to dismiss the overall implications of this change. Claiming in one breath that it will help genji but in the next claiming it will be “easy to heal through”.
Which is it? Something that makes genji more effective or easy to deal with? Because it cannot be both.
Yeah, it will be easy to heal through,
but the point is that it reduces your HPs so ease a kill confirm,
you would rarely get DoTed to death because it can be healed through, what would kill you is genji himself but like…thats the point
You are missing the point entirely.
Dash applying 50 instant damage + a potential 48 AND denying a quarter healing is way to much. Especially when you consider its cleave.
The only healers that would have a chance of dealing with this when applied to multiple targets are Moira and Brig.
All the other ones are either single target focused or to low in healing output for it.
This makes Brig and Moira must picks against Genji. Which ironically enough means that his Dragonblade would have no defensive to worry about…
I was already accounting for the added 12 DPS. Else you’d have lose nearer to two-thirds of your maximal DPS for drawing the blade, rather than just over half.
Moreover, Dragonblade is rarely used against an entire team’s worth of enemies per strike outside of Graviton Surge. Such circumstances are ideal for it, of course, but, for that same reason, enemy teams will avoid that very situation when you’re likely to have your ultimate available (or Graviton, for that matter).