6v6 Tank Doomfist balance feedback

Heyo, name’s Mnemesis, I’m a Doomfist main and I engage with the Doomfist community (I contribute a lot to reporting Doomfist bugs and generally gauging opinions of other players and streamers) as well as the competitive coaching scene/overwatch theory scene.

This is my first forum post on this account (or maybe ever? Been a while lol). I just wanted to share some feedback regarding Doomfist’s balance changes in the past few updates, and also my thoughts on the hero in 6v6. And no, this isn’t about turning him back into a DPS, I do actually prefer him as this hyper-mobile tank playstyle. Feels really unique!

I guess I’ll begin by firstly touching on the December 16th Seismic Slam nerf.

  • Shockwave range reduced from 18 to 15 meters.
  • Cooldown increased from 6 to 6.5 seconds.

I believe this was completely heavy handed and also completely unnecessary. To paraphrase GetQuakedOn, you could do like 40 rocket punches before the rocket punch radius buff took effect- you could even go an entire game without noticing that rocket punch buff (which is more or less a bug fix), whereas nerfing slam like this affects Doomfist’s survivability and consistency universally. A nerfed slam with a nerfed cooldown means building overhealth less, which means less uptime. A worse slam means more emphasis is put onto Rocket Punching as your engage, which will in turn make Doomfist less interactive for the user, and for the enemy who is more often being punched into walls.

Slam is Doomfist’s best engage for building overhealth and remaining consistent and mobile- nerfing slam when punch is the issue seems quite backwards to me- I propose instead of nerfing slam, you shift some power from punch into slam, and undo the cooldown nerf. A more powerful slam means Doomfist has multiple viable options for engaging, as currently and even in the past few months, Doomfist’s viability/strength has been almost entirely leaning into punching the enemy team, when in reality slam and punch should be equally as effective. If this paragraph sounds slightly contradictory, I can explain it in a reply below to clarify; I’m basically saying that slam didn’t need a nerf, it needed to be balanced out with punch. This just further shifts Doomfist’s playstyle into a one dimensional area.

Next, I want to discuss the nerfs proposed for 6v6.

Full stop, I think this was a terrible way of going about it. I do see the vision, but it’s kind of doubling down on the slam nerf, and it makes Doomfist not only one dimensional, but clunky and extremely situational.
Let’s start with the slam changes:
Seismic Slam

  • Cooldown increased from 6.5 to 7.5 seconds.
    ^There is much wrong with this. As previously mentioned, slam is Doomfist’s initial engage to build overhealth. But with this change, as well as with the previous December 16th nerf, the nerf to Doomfist’s base health AND the nerf to his overhealth built, you now have a Doomfist that neither has survivability nor consistent mobility. Much of Doomfist’s skill expression, engage or escape safely, or even just his ability to disrupt backlines completely rely on slam. 6v6 can have a slam radius nerf, it can have less health or less overhealth built, but why are we nerfing the cooldown more?
    Another tank means more opportunities for CC and another insurmountable wall for Doomfist to face, and so if anything, 6v6 is where Doomfist needs more mobility.

In 6v6, Doomfist needs survivability, or he needs mobility. You cannot nerf both, because you have effectively killed his uptime when a 6v6 format is already inherently difficult for the hero! He is naturally less bulky, he builds less health when slamming, his radius is worse AND his cooldown is lesser so you get less chances to build it- it has almost completely killed the hero? I am a 6v6 enthusiast and a massive Doomfist fan, but I know what it feels like to be doing everything I should be, and due to the hero’s power, it just not being enough.

Power Block

  • Maximum duration reduced from 2.5 to 2 seconds.
  • Cooldown increased from 7 to 8 seconds.
    ^This doesn’t make sense to me. At all. Block is a benign mitigation tool, and making it less potent serves absolutely zero purpose when you are already cutting his survivability in half (hyperbole but it’s pretty bad). If your concern is empowered punch being too much in 6v6, then seriously take some of punch’s power and shift it into slam so Doomfist at least has some engage options.

This is going to sound sort of… ad hominem, but much of the Doomfist community detests how he feels to play right now, because he’s clunky and he cannot act very independantly- he needs certain tanks to enable him or a perfect enemy team composition, or else he is almost useless. Trust me, I know the Doomfist community has a tendancy to complain a lot- I do too, but I was alright with his state pre December 16th, but this is getting frustrating. In 6v6, his cooldown rotation has been trifled with, his survivability has been cut way down, both as a result of that and the general nerfs to his HP, overhealth generation and block.

tl;dr:
I believe the balance team is “fixing” the wrong things about Doomfist, in a disproportionate way, and I believe punch and slam should be as powerful as eachother, rather than nerfing slam to keep punch stronger, and I believe this is further exacerbated in 6v6, to where the hero is neither fun, engaging nor viable.

My balance note suggestions for 6v6 (optional read)
*Just a quick note, I won’t make 5v5 balance suggestions just because that’s an entirely different can of worms. I would like to see his beta movement techs re-implemented desparately, but I don’t know if the devs are willing to go for that.

Seismic Slam

  • Cooldown decreased from 6.5 to 6 seconds.
  • Damage increased from 50 to 65.
    ^ This shifts power from punch into slam and keeps Doomfist’s consistency. Bear in mind we’re still at 425 HP and generating less overhealth.

Power Block

  • Maximum duration increased from 2 to 2.5 seconds.
  • Power Block now makes Doomfist immune to CC for the first second of activation.
  • Power Block now requires 90 damage to become empowered.
  • Cooldown decreased from 8 seconds to 7 seconds.
    ^ Think of this Block change as “parrying” like from fighting games. Now Doomfist has more options against CC that reward skill and good timing. Additionally, since empowered punch is nerfed, it is now easier to get. Nerfed cooldown for improved survivability, but if we’re adding these other changes, I’m honestly fine to keep it 8 seconds.

Rocket Punch

  • Empowered Punch damage multiplier decreased from 50% to 30%.
  • Empowered Punch AOE radius decreased from 50% to 30%.
    ^This is a significant reduction in additional damage, but it is honestly probably necessary considering the buffs in the kit elsewhere. The benefits to this change are that empowered punching an entire team is still very effective, just not as overcentralizing to Doomfist’s kit.

Meteor Strike

  • Self healing removed.
  • Ultimate cost decreased 16%.
    ^ This one might be a curveball, but I think we really need to start treating Doomfist’s Meteor Strike like a 4th ability, rather than trying to make it more like an ultimate. The faster it’s built, the more options Doomfist has. It’s better not to stay in the air too long either, as a tank that abandons its team just to heal itself seems… unusual? We like Meteor Strike because it allows us to reset our cooldowns or play hyperaggressively.
8 Likes

Power Block now makes Doomfist immune to CC for the first second of activation.

God this change alone would make him way more versatile and help with his dwindling identity.
He feels good right now but is at the same time so damn weak in 6v6. It’s a strange feeling.

2 Likes

Seriously, I have no idea how they came up with a block but didn’t think of a parry. It’d be so dope to reward skill for such an otherwise boring ability

NO. You are sharing your power budget with the 2nd tank, did you miss that?

CC immunity on a CC heavy mobile tank is a horrible idea. PLEASE consider that this is pvp not pve.

I can understand a benign desire for more mobility and to not be quite as team reliant. So buffs to slam cooldown could be useful, fun and inoffensive.

Block HAS to be nerfed for 6v6. With a backup tank up potential bail him out he has to have SOME window of vulnerability.

I definitely think they should lean into mobility and not sustain. That’s his teams job to supply him, to a degree. Especially as an off tank (because THAT is what he is in 6v6)

1 Like

You’re obviously new here. You’re not allowed to suggest things that would help Doomfist, even when he arguably needs them.

2 Likes

When Spilo saw the cooldown nerfs in the 6v6 patch, his first reaction was that this is the wrong direction to go in, that lengthening CDs takes away from the fun of the game. I fully agree with this assessment. Slam nerf, in particular, impaired Doomfist’s vital vertical mobility and engagement capability.

It is my dream for Doomfist to see him further reworked. I’d like to see the Empowered Punch mechanic scrapped altogether. It is gimmicky, unreliable and promotes the punchbotting play style that many of us hate.

Right now a fully charged wall punch does 115 damage. A fully charged empowered wall punch does 50% more damage (172.5) and provides 50% more travel distance and blast radius. I’d like to see it removed and the regular punch get buffed slightly in damage, to 125, and keep the increased travel distance and blast radius from its empowered version to make it more potent for movement and engaging on clumped up enemies.

Power Block having been stripped of a large chunk of its potency needs to be made a more viable defensive tool. Its duration has been nerfed for the 6v6 test down to 2 seconds; keep that in place and replace the lost “empowered” functionality with the frontal CC immunity and reduce its cooldown to 6 seconds.

Seismic Slam’s damage never got adjusted after everyone’s health got buffed in season nine and it got further nerfed recently quite handily. Fine, keep the travel distance reduction and low damage, but instead of raising its cooldown on top of it, lower it to 5 seconds.

These changes, together, would move him away from punchbotting and towards the infinitely more fun and dynamic rollout play style. His attacks, individually, would not be very lethal and threatening and he would rely on comboing and landing them in tandem.

Bonus ask: I would really like to see his shotgun projectile speed increased, maybe to be on par with Hazard’s.

2 Likes

From what I’ve seen so far, Doomfist has been quite strong in 6v6 if played well. You can kind-of roll him as Reinhardt though.

NO. You are sharing your power budget with the 2nd tank, did you miss that?

No, I didn’t “forget”, I’m saying Doomfist’s power balance is underpowered even despite the shared power budget with the second tank. I’m saying that he feels clunky and that if they want to keep him balanced for 6v6, they shouldn’t keep punch as powerful as it is in 5v5, they should disperse his power more to his slam so he can do what he’s supposed to do. Punchbotting isn’t interactive or fun, but in this mode it is literally your only option and it feels terrible.

CC immunity on a CC heavy mobile tank is a horrible idea. PLEASE consider that this is pvp not pve.

Yeah, I hear you, but Doomfist is already incredibly frail right now and you’d need to skillfully time this.

Block HAS to be nerfed for 6v6. With a backup tank up potential bail him out he has to have SOME window of vulnerability.

And yet we have Hazard’s block on a 1 second cooldown and a resource meter and debatably far superior mobility options.

I’m not trying to buff Doomfist to a 5v5 level. I’m trying to fix his terrible 6v6 balance which is forcing him into one very annoying and repetitive playstyle. He feels bad to play. You can take or leave most of my suggestions, I’m not actually saying we should do them. I’m saying we need to start shifting more power into slam instead of stunting one ability to justify the other’s strength.

You’re obviously new here. You’re not allowed to suggest things that would help Doomfist, even when he arguably needs them.

(I am in fact new here and it looks like I have to reply to everyone in one message, which is extremely annoying. Anyways, is this sarcasm? I can’t find a rule that says I can’t merely suggest what I would personally do or anything relating to suggesting balance changes as a whole)

From what I’ve seen so far, Doomfist has been quite strong in 6v6 if played well. You can kind-of roll him as Reinhardt though.

Yeah I won’t deny he can get value, he just doesn’t feel good and his playstyle is very one dimensional.

1 Like

Hazard is an easy mode Doomfist with a cool wall ability, imo.

If you can add a follow up button with Hazards leap, then you give the same for Doomfist give him back his rising uppercut.

1 Like

Ooooooo. Splendid idea, actually. Doomfist relies heavily on being able to cancel it, but it could be something like pressing crouch mid-Slam, like Ball’s piledriver.

Don’t forget that the Empowered punch AoE is increased by 50%. That should be completely removed. After that, I’m all for the changes suggested, but also reduce punch damage accordingly if all squishy health pools get nerfed to 200 instead of 250, because that’s a big difference maker too.

I’m also interested in the other guy’s suggestion of replacing slam with uppercut, but then pressing ctrl while in air to slam down, and splitting the slam damage between both of those abilities.

Lotta good replies, I must’ve missed Konstas’s intial reply somehow, which is crazy because like yeah this is pretty sick.

When Spilo saw the cooldown nerfs in the 6v6 patch, his first reaction was that this is the wrong direction to go in, that lengthening CDs takes away from the fun of the game. I fully agree with this assessment. Slam nerf, in particular, impaired Doomfist’s vital vertical mobility and engagement capability.

I actually didn’t see Spilo’s review on this, but I’m glad he’s in agreement, especially as someone who is in adjacent contact with the balancing team.

It is my dream for Doomfist to see him further reworked. I’d like to see the Empowered Punch mechanic scrapped altogether. It is gimmicky, unreliable and promotes the punchbotting play style that many of us hate.

Not an uncommon opinion, but I didn’t propose it just because it enters major rework territory. It’s a dope idea.

Seismic Slam’s damage never got adjusted after everyone’s health got buffed in season nine and it got further nerfed recently quite handily. Fine, keep the travel distance reduction and low damage, but instead of raising its cooldown on top of it, lower it to 5 seconds.

While I’m with you on this, I do certainly prefer the 6 second cooldown if it means an improved slam

Don’t forget that the Empowered punch AoE is increased by 50%. That should be completely removed. After that, I’m all for the changes suggested, but also reduce punch damage accordingly if all squishy health pools get nerfed to 200 instead of 250, because that’s a big difference maker too.

I wouldn’t remove the AOE increase, I’d honestly prefer empowered be removed at that point, but it should at least get nerfed, maybe 35% to match the damage increase? Good call though, I didn’t even consider this.

1 Like

What if Seismic Slam had falloff? More damage at close range and less at the edge of its range? (this is assuming an 18 meter range).

Like maybe 65~ or so damage at close range and 45~ damage at max range.

Bro just asking for doom buffs

Doomfist has needed reworked to be more similar to Mirrorwatch Doomfist for a while now, so that he can actually Tank for his team like all Tanks are supposed to.

Because Block would include a barrier, it would naturally block CC like other barriers do.

Bro just asking for doom buffs

You gotta actually read the post bruh smh

Doomfist has needed reworked to be more similar to Mirrorwatch Doomfist for a while now, so that he can actually Tank for his team like all Tanks are supposed to.
Because Block would include a barrier, it would naturally block CC like other barriers do.

That doesn’t help with Doomfist’s loss of identity as a fighting game character in an FPS though. Parrying and skillful timing are much more interesting than a barrier, and I think a barrier would actually just make Doom WAY more survivable than necessary. I also feel this is just a boring idea as a whole, even if it does “fix” some things. The whole point of Mirrorwatch Doomfist was to play more with the team and less selfishly, too, so you can argue that’s why the barrier existed.