Patch Notes for October 21st Experimental Card w/ Video

There’s a lot I’d like to talk about but I’ll try to keep it short. If you could relay it the dev’s I’d be really appreciative. This is purely about the junkrat changes.

From a character design point of view. He’s becoming a close range specialists which is fine but he doesn’t have the HP, sustain, defensive abilities or safe mobility like the other close range heroes to get him into that range. I’m unsure if the trade off for massive damage up close is worth it. Sym is an example of this but she has 225hp and can teleport to flanks and enclosed areas to avoid hitscan. I feel like junkrat needs something to mitigate hitscan dominance if I’m being forced to cover distance.

The distance traveled is tracked by how far the grenade travels. Because an arc is longer than a straight line it makes his 15m fall off feel more like 13-14m. So ricochets around corners or something underneath/above you will add distance and increase falloff damage. The easiest way to see this is if you shoot straight up, you’ll do minimum damage when it comes back down. It also punishes slow rollers where you deliberately put a grenade on the ground, bounces have arcs which easily add to the distance traveled.

Oddly enough this makes taking high ground as him extremely disadvantageous which he is known for currently. High ground on kings row almost guarantees minimal damage. This clearest example of this is eichenwalde point 2. If you defend on top of the castle all damage will be 78 per shot if they’re on the low ground.

The biggest issue is that 15-25m fall off his break even point is 18.1m. Nearly every defensive point in OW is farther than this. Most maps have a control point that is longer/wider than 18m which is a net loss for him. I’m not sure if 78 damage was on purpose but you cannot land a combo outside 25m now. DPS heroes survive with 2hp and doesn’t kill if they’re trapped more than 18m away.

Overall this change lowers his options and creativity. I’m no longer rewarded for high ground or good ricochets. The change is so extreme it feels more like a rework than anything else. I have to play close range or I do laughable damage on difficult shots. Not to mention any airshots are heavily mitigated as they are all usually farther away than 18m. In the end I’m being forced to flank or face tank and hope my suppose save me. I can’t deal with damage or hitscan with ricochets because it adds too much distance to his shots.

I think most of this would be fixed if the falloff damage started at 25/30m instead of 15.

I’ve streamed and one tricked junkrat since season one, I’ve been through it thick and thin with him. I think this would be the most difficult change he’s faced since launch.

3 Likes

Okay, here’s my feedback.

  1. Make it so when McCree uses his roll in the air, that it makes him hover, and he can keep pressing the roll button to stay airborne.

  2. Allow Torbjorn to construct turrets on top of Reinhardt’s head.

  3. Increase all Junkrat damage by 1000%

  4. Change Moira’s ability names to “suck” and “blow.”

2 Likes

Junkrat’s change is the worst of them all since it makes him stronger at what he already is while not helping him against what he struggles against. This is such a backwards balance philosophy from the OW team since it only results in counters being harder and harder against each other, instead of becoming softer, which is what they should be striving for to a degree where counter picking has value, but individual skills still has by far the greatest impact, which I would say is not the case currently for some hero interactions.

They should give Junkrat slightly less “spam” in exchange of better range on primary fire and consistency instead.

Edit: Woops, replied to myself instead of editing my last reply! Phone keyboard blocks all your text when up for some reason so I missed it.

2 Likes

Well I also got about 400 hours on TF2 Demoman.

And yes, I’ve been thinking about Junkrat design for a while.

1 Like

Buffing MCwhateverhisnamehis???

Cmon this is a Halloween trick right?

IS A HALLOWEEN TRICK RIGHT?

I’m still reading :stuck_out_tongue:

10 Likes

Ok now let Reaper use wrath form (he’s a wrath) to go trough walls, he will keep his identity and will be a nice addition :smirk:

1 Like

Then please, I think what we really need is some kind of lore drop before then end of Oct.

Like when Zarya was teased with a weightlighting champion poster. (If I recall correctly.)

Honestly don’t really care who it is or what, could even be just Zen having coffee…somehow.

1 Like

The comments about this patch don’t look better on Reddit btw.

2 Likes

Read this, balance change suggestions starts at page 68. It was a while since i started it, so it was before some patches where released, but generally everything still applies. Just add dots at the spaces and after google and the link should work.

docs google com/document/d/1T46wXXKBb-o1iv-g-3hSrg8FfjBDrztlhKKfPMSIZno/edit?usp=drivesdk

Why do I feel like devs gave us an experimental with stuff that could be planned for OW2. :eyes:
If that’s the case, they should do it often.

In OW2, Mcce and other DPS will turn super saiyan blue.

Well, okay then. We’ll do the qualitative stuff.

Honestly not really sure what the goal is here.

What the idea here?
To reduce spam annoyance? Then my above solutions cover that.
Is it about how how much barrier damage he does at range, maybe… But he’s only doing a little bit more than a Soldier or Baptiste.
Or missing the point about “ranged tank buster” considering you can just sidestep it at range.
Or Tracer counter?

Just overall the 150 damage seems like it will hit a lot more abuseable breakpoints. (I.e. 195 damage with a damage boost being a hairs breadth from 200) And make Tanks a bit more miserable in the brawl portion of the fight.

And to be honest, it comes off as a bit weird with trying to attract more Tank players. And abilities like Echo Beam and StormArrow are already on track to be nerfed.

Doesn’t seem right to raise up that burden on tanks even higher. Because they might maintain a barrier a bit longer, but get more easily blown up on the objective fight.

Additionally it you land a long sick shot and only come up with a wimpy 78 damage. That’s gotta be infuriating to Junkrat players that have learned proper arc aiming and prediction.

If anything, devs should just block a second Tank pick of Rein/Orisa/Sigma. Just disallow doublebarrier entirely.
And start porting in a bunch of Tank changes and anti-tank changes that were due for OW2.

Also if the goal was to be the barrier thing. I thought OW2 was trying to equalize the potential of non-barrier tanks and barrier tanks. So seems odd to get rid of a ranged barrier busting thing.


Somewhat of a tangent below.


Such as the StormArrow/EchoBeam nerfs, and FanTheHammer nerfs (I.e. Slap a cooldown on it). Or the reduced Ult charge feeding.

Additionally it comes off a bit tone deaf with buffing McCree when he’s been so powerful.

And yes, this is probably in preparation for the upcoming Flashbang/FanTheHammer spam nerfs.

But you’d think they should start giving us some of those sooner. (I.e. The easy one, just slap a 3-5sec cooldown on FanTheHammer)

Additionally, if you really want to get some emotional good will from Tank players and others. Reduce storm arrows to 3 already.



Also I gotta be doing something right, considering I was speculating explosives falloff not that long ago.

Soldier is clearly overtuned - #12 by GreyFalcon-11737


Overall, it’s appreciated that they are trying to get Junkrat to a higher skill ceiling, and higher skill floor position. Just less annoying overall.

But this doesn’t seem like a good fit for that.

If anything it makes Junkrat haters unhappy, it makes Junkrat lovers unhappy, and it makes Tank players unhappy.

But the effort is appreciated.

But maybe put this halfbaked idea back in the oven, and get something that fits the goal better, with fewer negative side effects.

TLDR;

  • Something that involves buffing Junkrat projectile size before bounce. Back up to what it used to be. Extra damage isn’t needed. Make it so hitting direct-hits without a bounce is rewarded.
  • Nerf Fan The Hammer, Storm Arrows, and Echo Beam please, sooner than later. Even if that means other changes are needed.
  • Worst comes to worst, if the goal is to cut his anti-barrier potential just make it so that explosives are worse against barriers. Maybe make it so beams are stronger against barriers.
3 Likes

torb is… ok i guess, tho it feels like it could be too strong.
Moira is a good change, but it feels too little
air combat roll is good i want that. Dunno if deadeye really needed the buff.

Junkrat… i can understand the idea behind the changes, but this is buffing what he’s already good at and nerf what tskes most skill, that is air shots.
I’d keep more direct less aoe and leave it at that. He doesnt need falloff or extra damage

Are the McCree buffs only there to distract at how awful the other heros changes are?

You guys REALLY hate tanks, don’t you?

1 Like

I’m not taking care to avoid hyperbole tbh,

I just want you guys to actually know that Pharah, in fact, exists,

and maybe you should touch her more than once every 2 years :laughing: :pensive:

I’m going to need a visualisation of how quick this is to kill a squishy. because the time to reach the kill stage for a 200hp squishy is already quick when one considers which part of the ult cue is actually audible.

i.e. rn, when mccree’s ult cue is most audible (esp in a fight) is when he says “high”, and watch when a 200hp becomes killable (spoiler: literally when he says “high”)

Junkrat buffs need to go, they are awful

Punishing skilled junkrats with falloff

To my knowledge, this is the first time a projectile has falloff

Why you trying the mccree mid air roll?

We tried it out and it wasnt needed, and again its not needed today

1 Like

Hey everyone, I have now included a video showing the raw changes between Live and Experimental

6 Likes

There’s a lot of criticism over this Experimental, so on a more positive note I’d like to say that I like the two ammo change for Torb’s RMB. Obviously I’m enjoying more frequent Overloads as well, but I am nervous that that particular buff might be a little bit too much. If I had to pick one buff or the other, I’d take the ammo one.