That’s why Bastion is a part of the poorly designed Overwatch heroes. Very difficult to balance for every levels without bring frustration and OPness somewhere.
I’m not familiar with low ranks, but I can imagine a bastion is not countered that easily in bronze/silver even today.
In the early dev, I guess developers focused more on the “this hero seems cool” more that “this hero will be balanced for every single players” and that’s the issue here.
bastion by himself isn’t an issue period. The issue is when he has a reinhardt, orisa or both which is really aids along with mercy that is along for the ride… That is when it becomes a real pain. I am almost amazed that people in sub 2k dont just play bastion and torb with double shields… it’s easy as hell to run and nets easy results.
It’s kind of like pharah. Pharah by herself isn’t really an issue. It’s when mercy flies around and they do their girl power combo that is still aids till this day.
Bastion needs a full on rework period. I mean from the ground up.
You can’t look at hero balance considering them alone. Overwatch is a 6v6 game, when you balance him, you have to consider he will be protected by a shield. I thought it was common sense.
Balance take into account synergies.
That’s like considering Hanzo ult alone, it’s one on the weakest one. But with grav, it is fairly powerful. Add Mercy’s boost, it’s very powerful. That’s why balance changes applied on Mercy are more considered as a Hanzo nerf.
hanzo is a whole nother discussion… I will just say that allowing his current form past PTR is really pathetic on blizzard’s part.
Back to shielded bastion and the difficulty of countering it for lower elo players. Torb/orisa/bastion works in sub gold games very well cause it’s skill floor for execution is far lower than the skill floor of execution of countering it. This we all know it’s nothing new.
What are the chances of coordinating your team to rotate around the outer edges playing the bastion weapon spread and cover game against the bastion until dva’s defensive matrix recharges? That is easier said than done.
Sure you could also run sombra… I have tried it in silver… it’s terrible your team will either tilt and throw as soon as they see sombra or you just wont get any teamwork off your hacks.
I used Hanzo as an example because his ult is a very good (and actual) example of “garbage alone, powerful as a combo”. Nothing more. Don’t care about him anyways.
And I guess we agree, Bastion is tough to counter in low elos because it requires teamplay and game awareness. As you said, more skill to counter than to use.
But my point was not there, as you said, everyone know that, nothing new. My point is that for that reason, Bastion is extremely hard to balance because you can’t make it viable somewhere without making it unbalanced somewhere else. Or that would need hell of a rework, and I have to admit, I don’t have a clue what to do to keep its no movement high damage core spirit and change him enough to make it fairer.
That’s why, in my opinion, and sorry for bastion players, it will be difficult to have a viable Bastion at some point.
here’s to 500 more days! (hopefully)
We don’t want Bastion to be Hanzo levels of “good”. We don’t want him to be broken again. Just playable. Right now, his damage is so inconsistent, it’s nearly impossible to do anything with him, which makes him basically useless…
And Bastion feels a lot better to play against than Doomfist, Widow, and Hanzo. I would much rather go up against something that kills pretty fast than something that insta-kills with no counterplay whatsoever.
Bastion only requires a bunker comp because he has little independence. Before his rework, he didn’t need a bunker comp because he could reliably 1v1 most everyone. Now that he can’t do that, he relies on teammates to protect him and do half of his job for him.
Headshots aren’t the issue. Even if he had headshots back, they wouldn’t make a difference because of his spread. Reducing his spread should be top priority, give him some consistency back. Plus only having them on airborne targets doesn’t make much sense, that’s a very strange stipulation, not very intuitive at all…
I understand that don’t worry, I just say that it’s very hard to make Bastion playable at high ranks and no OP at low elo in the same time.
The problem is not local, everyone could make bastion fair and playable in one specific rank, but we have a 5000 SR range to think on. And that is the true issue.
The intuition is that he is an AA turret now.
Simply swapping Tank and Sentry would ruin him. That would take way too much away from his kit. Especially if you also take away jumping from Tank mode which takes away his best utility, rocket jumping. He’d just be a slow, grounded Pharah with a massive hitbox, he’d be completely useless…
If they want to put Tank on E, that would be fine, but don’t put Sentry on Q.
Bastion’s skill comes from knowing where to be and when. If you’re out of position, you’re going to get punished for it harder than any other hero because you have to waste half a second standing up before you can walk away.
If they want to discourage sitting in Sentry mode the entire game, then take away Ironclad. All Ironclad does is encourage Bastion players to sit in Sentry mode all game for the damage resist. Before that came in, Bastion players had to move around much more. Sitting in Sentry mode for too long was just a death sentence.
Yeah, but if someone jumps, do they suddenly have a head?
No one else acts like that, I don’t think they should start with Bastion. If they really don’t want him doing as much damage with headshots, then reduce the multiplier to 1.5x instead of 2x. Widow already has a 2.5x multiplier, so this way has already been done before…
Bastion as he is basically doesnt have a kit, that’s part of his issue. There’s not interactions, no combos. I think he’s hard to balance because of how simple he is, its all just number tweaking right now.
I didn’t say no rocket jumping, I just meant no spacebar jumping, I’ll edit that. Rocket jumping is fine because its risk vs reward since there’s self damage involved.
Regarding the debate of sentry mode or not, making him require more movement to use sentry mode is gonna be a nerf sine it increases the downtime of his “real” damage mode.
welcome to the scrapheap bud, Reaper’s there’ with you, this is what you get for having a main that’s not a top tier waifu.
I agree with half of that… He isn’t so much of an issue on his own, only when paired with a shield or two and a healer. This is what we (Bastion mains) are trying to stop. We want him to be good on his own so that he can be run without a bunker comp, and he doesn’t instantly die…
I don’t think it requires a ground up rework though. Just remove passive Ironclad, give Sentry mode it’s damage back, put Ironclad on self-heal so he still has some survivability, give Tank it’s armor back.
Now he’s not as effective to pocket because the healer has to heal just as much damage as the enemy does. Currently, for every 10 damage done to him, he only needs to be healed by 8 health, which makes him very easy to pocket. And with his awful spread, you pretty much have to damage boost him all game for him to get anything done. If you give his damage back, that won’t be the case. He’ll be more independent like he was before the rework.
What’s stupid is it was/is easy.
Revert the crappy turret changes, they are crap. Lose Ironclad completely. Leave the healing and recon buffs. He ONLY EVER NEEDED the recon buffs
You have to be able to jump in order to rocket jump… simply shooting the ground isn’t going to do much of anything for you. And why wouldn’t Tank be able to jump or go up slopes again? That doesn’t make much sense, especially considering that would be his main mode…
If Recon is meant to be his main mode, then he’ll just be an knockoff Soldier no matter what. He needs to keep Sentry to stay as Bastion.
If Sentry requires more movement to set up, but does more damage when you do, then it’s a buff.
I mean, not to get into a epeen competition, but Bastion has had it worse than Reaper for much longer… Bastion’s primary mode of damage is basically broken… He’s supposed to be mid-range, but his spread is larger than Sombra’s… Reaper’s E is trash, yeah, but he doesn’t require 2 shields and a healer at all times…
he does actually and his spread issue is identical to Reaper’s, but yeah, he’s been in the dumpster longer. I fully expect neither to be fixed because they’re not in tune with the prop scene’s mobility circle jerk.
Fair enough, maybe a reduced jump in tank mode, wont get up most obstacles but allows you to get up enough to rocket jump.
I’m not saying recon is his main mode, its his main mode of mobility to set himself up to go into tank or sentry mode, like its name implies.
The problem with buffing sentry modes damage to even out more setup is that its still gonna be situationally OP. Just because its hard to setup doesn’t mean it should be able to mow down the entire team. That makes its frustrating to play against. That was the biggest issue with Bastion in early OW