Making double barrier mandatory from Sigma’s release and the introduction of 2-2-2 for well over a year was “variety” to you? I don’t even know how to respond to that…
Again, the game is played VASTLY different from high ranks vs low ranks. Not to mention there were counters to double barrier but no one wanted to play them, or they got nerfed within 1 week.
I get the spirit of the argument, but have yet to hear any actual logical way to balance a competitive game.
You balance top down, and look for severe statistical problems at low rank. How else would you balance the game? Look at people’s feedback in ranks where people completely ignore metas and play what they want?
Good luck with that.
If you balance from the top down, then why mess with Reaper in the first place? There was no point to the changes that were made to him. Especially since the first round of changes literally dumpstered him until the last round of buffs. Or why Moira was left in the trash bin.
I just find it obnoxious that changes are made that affect the top 2-5% that effectively dumpster heroes in lesser leagues. Sure, the main focus should be GM, but if you don’t consider the impacts on the causal playerbase then there won’t be a game left to play.
It’s because the “top 2-5%” is what people strive towards in a competitive game and try to mimic. Every ability based game has metas every single patch, and competitive people do their best to win.
The other camp of people is just people who play what they want to play, regardless if it’s a good pick for the situation. That’s entirely fine, but how would you balance around that?
For instance, an OTP who isn’t happy with the one hero they play in the current meta – impossible to please. Why? Because there’s thousands of other OTP’s who have completely opposite views.
Pretty easy to see why you balance top down to me.
In those situations, the OTP are typically the outliers. Most of the time people will play their favorite heroes even though they aren’t meta. Or you get the lower ranks who religiously follow the meta. That generally makes up the majority of the lower end.
Take me for example. I play at around 2k SR and my most played tank is Orisa. Except I can’t play her and make any impact in the game because of all the double shield nerfs. Because of problems that didn’t exist for the majority of the player base.
Why should 90% of the playerbase suffer for a meta that I wasn’t apart of? People leave games because of this.
Now I know I don’t play perfect. There’s times were I didn’t pay attention to my surroundings. Or blew my cooldowns at the wrong time. But my overall point is you can’t just balance 100% of the time for high ranks because the only ones playing your game will just be them and it IS NOT sustainable.
So 90% of the playerbase is suffering based on your anecdotal Orisa experience?
You’re demonstrating exactly what I was talking about – Blizzard has to balance top down and let people sink or swim based on it. People who want one hero to always be a legit option are always going to suffer.
High ranks only set the bar, it’s up to you to adapt and try to get that win. You can win by doing many things, but if you’re hard stuck on playing one thing when it’s clearly not working that’s on you IMO.
Doesn’t seem to be an issue with Rein and Zarya players. They’re always getting picked and they have been always in every single game that I play. People apparently want them to be the solutions to all their problems and leave everyone else in the cold.
You can’t just have tank comp that is the answer to all your problems. That is what it is like in low leagues right now, and there needs to be more options. Why else would the devs implement a pass system because all the tanks pretty much left the game?
Again, would be nice to have some options to switch to. Having only a fraction of viable tanks to work with is not making things better. I am willing to wait, to work and improve my gameplay, but many others are not as patient as I am.
My experience has been very different. In fact, until this year Reinhardt was just an absolutely inferior pick to Sigma across all ranks that I observed. With that, Zarya doesn’t duo tank well with Sigma so she wasn’t picked that much either. We had a brief period where they busted Roadhog and it was Road/Zarya but other than that…
Tank has always been the most pivotal role in this game, metas always revolve around it. What’s good for DPS and Heals generally defaults to what’s good for tanks, despite them not being a popular role to play.
They’ve hinted at making the tank role more “brawlers” in OW2, which I am all for. The traditional tank role hasn’t worked so well for OW so far. Can’t make everyone happy.
It is true that no matter your rank, you can have vastly different experiences.
This is partially due to the lack of tank (and support) heroes. I believe GOATS would not have existed for so long if there were more Tank and Support heroes.
And when you have a hybrid game like OW, you have those who come from an FPS background, and those from MOBAs. If you make changes that appease one group, you anger the other.
I know the answer is complex. It just would be nice to have more than one option be viable for months on end, then disappear due to the nerf bat, and the next tank takes its place. It’s been happening for years now and something has to change.
I don’t think it’s as morbid as you make it out to be for your average joe though – Rein/Zarya may be a staple, but it’s not the “one option” to me at all.
Funny enough, in the recent “experimental tournament” where OWL teams competed, Rein/DVa was actually more common. I know that’s another tier of play, but it’s interesting how balance unfolds at so many different levels.
When you stop arguing against positions that are weaker than what your opponents are saying, then proceed to tear those down, I bet people stop saying “straw man” to you.
I couldn’t disagree more. GOATS was 100% tank and support. How could having more have prevented that?
There are several problems with tanking in this game.
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They can’t define tanks as team protectors, space makers or brawlers. Most teams seem to want a tank who provides protection and creates angles that allow DPS to do their work. What they have gotten are fat DPS who end up creating space just by killing everyone easily. The DPS then have no role and during that time they die…to tanks.
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Adding tanks, they erred on the side of overlapping skills. This has created the double shield dilemma, and others that need to be addressed by breaking up synergies.
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It is a colossal error to use damage as the space creation mechanism as it devalues and entire category of players (dps)
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People use the straw man argument to discredit perfectly good points because they believe saying “straw man argument” completely invalidates what someone said, and it doesn’t.
I’m sorry that you think it necessary to sit and argue with every single person who replies to you.
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And I am sorry that you are woefully unaware of what a straw man argument is, and that the most effective way of refuting an allegation of invoking one is not to say “I’m tired of everyone telling me I use straw man fallacies”, particularly when they are accurate.
You are accused of it so much…because you commit them so much.
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I mean, yeah, your perfectly valid point totally destroyed… the straw man. But people usually don’t care given you ignored their actual argument to refute something they never stated. It is kind of a conversation ender…
Because he needs “No AiM nO bRaIn”?
Both are fine but it is hypocrisy to say that Rein need nerfs and Zarya don’t when she is clearly the carry on this duo.
But both don’t need any nerfs, other tanks need buffs.
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… You guys are getting vacuum pins?
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Nah, I don’t. If you intended to have a discussion about the meat of the conversation you wouldn’t of felt the need to be a third grade english teacher suck up about it.
If you were trying to be polite, you wouldn’t of been pedantic. Which means you have nothing of real substance to add to the conversation and are just attempting a ‘gotcha’ over a word.
Get over yourself and go back to reddit to learn how to be a debate bro.
You don’t need to call something what it is for people to know what you are talking about. I don’t see you calling Roadhog by his full name, or Wrecking Ball by his full name. Should I be pointlessly pedantic about that? No? Okay then.
There is a perfectly fine cactus waiting for you over there. 
