Expect I never claimed that the argument was either invalid or invalid. I stated an opinion. You attempted to invalidate anothers opinion. Big Difference. So no, not hypocrisy. Nice through.
By the way, the owners have that game have given little support to the proscene. And they often play on a modified ruleset for tournaments to introduce that stress into the game. The game is designed, marketed and supported as a stress free party game as it’s default state. And yet it still has a successful esports scene.
There is far more damage than there is difference in HP bars. The game being too lethal is the number one complaint and even you have admitted that snipers for example would need nerfs.
How you think that translates to healers having the same impact is beyond me. They factually have less than before. They are countered more and have less successful damage mitigation. This is a big reason that game mode is faster paced.
Expect I never claimed that the argument was either invalid or invalid. I stated an opinion.
This sentence is complete gibberish. If it’s an opinion then why did you just call it an argument? I assumed that you believe your arguments to be valid. I did this because I see no reason why you would intentionally make invalid arguments. Also, you said invalid twice.
If you think that your own arguments are invalid, that is weird but as they say in smash, “we take those.” I can’t debate someone who intentionally makes invalid arguments. I could point to evidence that shows Overwatch gives a higher than average support for their esports scene, but why bother if you just reply with “i’m just stating my opinion.” If it doesn’t bother you that your opinions contradict facts, then have fun with that.
The opinion in question was about Smash, not league.
I addressed the dispute about Smash in my first paragraph. Then I addressed your claim that Blizzard gives “little support to the proscene” in my second paragraph. It seems you are having literacy problems beyond simple typos. (correction: your opinions is actually about smash, but there is no way I could have known that)
I’m done wasting my time. I’ve given you opportunities to make a reasoned opposition argument. An argument by nature presumes opposing opinions to be invalid, that’s the entire point of reason; to discern truth from falsehood. It’s impossible to argue someone who doesn’t understand what an argument is.
Oh okay, that makes more sense. Normally I would say “my bad” in a situation like this, but you said and I quote “the owners have that game have given little support to the proscene.” and you never used the word Smash or Overwatch in that entire post. I assumed you were talking about Overwatch because we are in the Overwatch forums. You can’t even argue that we moved on from the topic of Overwatch to Smash because you start talking about HP bars in the next paragraph which don’t exist in Smash. You were talking about both games in the same post, but mentioned neither game’s name or company, it’s not my fault I couldn’t discern your intention.
Most DPS do have higher skill ceilings than Tank/Support.
DPS have to have situational awareness, positioning, reaction and forethought just the same as Tank/Support but they also have to spend a huge portion of their time grinding mechanical skill to make it anywhere.
So basically DPS requires all the stuff Tank/Support does + grinding KovaaK’s and aim maps.
Agree, at least In my server(SA) from high plat+ games are more team oriented(regrouping, peeling, etc), but with the experimental it seems is not the case anymore. If they implement it(wich I doubt in his current version/balance) I would need to farm ranks to enjoy games again.
In one match I tried to go with mei to peel my teammates, as I do when I go as an off Tank, but it was uselees when a Doom and a Tracer went into our Zenyatta, I felt bad for him. Maybe I need more practice with Mei but I really think If I where hog there the result would end different (hook one and bodyblock with his big hitbox the other).
I hope they polish that mode if they want it, like 1 tank-2damage-2support to have less deathmatch like games (and if someone think this is biased of me, I like off tank that would elimitate the role I like).
I on the other hand completely disagree with the OP, as overall 3/2/1 is absolutely terrible from every aspect if you’re playing Tank and just a tad bit better if you’re playing Support…
Hope this change doesn’t go through and it thankfully won’t, as long as devs act logically and realize that it’s not worth it ruining the experience of so many Tank and even Support players (as if they already weren’t in a bad enough state already) and sacrificing the arguably great overall state Overwatch has been at for the past weeks for the sake of catering to the same old DPS players, due to the behaviors of many of which, systems such as role - lock had to be implemented in the first place so many months ago…
I think the majority of people who think this is the preferable game mode tend to be in the lower SR range and have poor positioning/gamesense, a lot of the time. The things they complain about are usually just “not being able to do anything they want successfully at any time or point during a match.”
Like you want to just be able to earth shatter without much thought or counterplay factoring in. The possibility of getting huge shatters was always there in 2-2-2, but you have to wait for the right moment to do so. At the higher ranks, it stops even becoming about mechanical skill. Everyone has that. It’s about gamesense and strategy and timing.
That’s what prevents most people in Gold and below from climbing and that’s why they love this version of “the game” (I’m reluctant to even call it that, because it’s more like a bad deathmatch or FFA), because their poor gamesense is no longer punished.
The possibility of getting huge shatters was always there in 2-2-2, but you have to wait for the right moment to do so.
You still have to wait until the right moment to do so too but there are more of those moments, arguably playing the main tank requires more tactics and timing because even though it’s easier to land shatters it’s also easier for the enemy to land shatters, which makes it require better timing to deny an enemy shatter. Personally, the most satisfying moments I have had playing Rein in 1-3-2 is where I bait out enemy shatters and deny it. Don’t you realize that having fewer windows for shatters makes shatters more predictable, or is basic logic lost on you? The more predictable a game is, the less mind-games and tactics need to be employed to win a game. These are simple concepts.
I think the majority of people who use the word gamesense have a very faint idea what it means, and just throw the word around to justify a really bad argument. Your entire point is predicated off the assumption that I’m a bad tank player, therefore, I like 1-3-2 because playing tank is easier because it requires less gamesense. Of course, this directly contradicts everyone else who argues against me saying tank is too hard now, but I digress. It is just as easy to punish poor gamesense as before, but it is punished in a different way, you are just being stubborn.
If I were as petty as you, I could make the argument that you just dislike 1-3-2 because you lack the basic gamesense required to adapt new tactics to a new meta. Because apparently calling people bad players is a valid argument? Not really, grow up.
In summary, when a game changes, the gamesense does too. A more aggressive meta means a less defensive gamesense. Since Overwatch is one of the most meta dependent games on the market, the competitive players are the least capable of adapting gamesense to new metas when compared to other games. Of course many high SR players hate major change, because it forces them to relearn the game and not rely on the exact same strategies over and over again.
I’ve won every game I’ve played as Tank. I dislike it not because I can’t adapt and win, but because I think it’s easy and stripped down and it sucks. And you did just make that argument, so I’ll reiterate what I said before. You acknowledge there are windows to use your abilities with great results in the core game. You also acknowledge that you like this game more because there are a lot more windows to do the same thing. So you like it better when you can reach a result more easily. Okay, that’s fine. But not being able to anticipate and act upon those same windows in the main game IS a gamesense thing, as in you don’t notice the precursors that signal those moments. Nobody does perfectly, but if I used my ultimate at the wrong time and got no value or missed a perfect time to use it and someone pointed it out to me, I wouldn’t think “oh, well the game should just make those times more frequent/the majority.” I’d say “Yeah, you’re right,” think about why I missed or what I could have done differently, and try to improve so I become better in the future.
nope. I played Winston. he did just fine, and survived well. Tanks players have become to reliant on other tanks, and usually this comment you said are from tank players who hasn’t tired it, or just tried a game or two.
Tanks are much beefier, and just about all the players I have asked who played for longer and tried it, stated they actually enjoyed being a much beefier hero, and do just fine.
I played Hog, Rein, and Sigma. None of them did “just fine”. If you try to push and not everyone’s behind you, you get focused and die. If someone flanks and the DPS don’t deal with it, you literally have to turn around and peel for the supports, taking the front line with you. Tanking now just depends on your ability to herd three DPS players into working together. No more, no less.
I’ve played several games, and neither tank nor support was worth the time spent. Tanks are barely better than before, with some variance. Hog needs to spam E to survive. Zarya literally can’t frontline, she has to make the DPS stay relatively near each other (good luck with that), then convince them to go in ahead (have fun) to get value. Rein is just a bit more survivable, but he doesn’t have an off-tank to cover him and there’s extra damage headed his way. Similar things with Orisa and Sigma. Winston does better than most because his job is diving squishies, he has a faster barrier, and an extra 100 armor. The biggest buff out of all the MTs and maybe even the offtanks as well. D.Va got better armor and DM, which helps but she’s still an ult battery if she attempts to frontline. And WB got nothing even though he’s already countered by the one DPS that acts most like a second tank. There’s a reason that tanks are reliant on teamwork. That’s literally how the role is supposed to work.
So basically, you cherrypicked the one tank that does well and exaggerated everything else.
