I really don’t mind Triple Tank, or even Mei-Reaper, nearly much as all these over-the-top restrictions.
I’d much rather see small changes to point control, slight QoL/fluidity/intuitive design changes to across the board (which would proportionately favor rapid play by high-skill heroes, especially DPS), and a revision of Ice Wall.
In the meantime, replace Role Queue with a softer Preference / Dibs system.
As we finally found out rules are required for better diversity, so Ideally, a 1-1-1-1-1-1 comp would be the best comp (3 main roles and 3 off roles).
Unfortunately, the amount of current heroes and Blizzard’s efficiency of creating new heroes will never allow this perfect scenario to happen.
They are suffering from the “quantity to quality” issue. It’s a root issue, and any other solutions are just bandaid fix.
Probably because we weren’t in 2 years of barrier synergy to begin with. Goats was damage mitigation by D.va and Zarya was the main dps. Rein’s barrier was largely useless throughout most of goats because brig could shield bash him through it.
Goats turned into a game of deathball, where you isolated an enemy and bursted them down with discord. No amount of barrier was stopping that, which is why they opted for three defensive ults instead.
Literally every barrier tank is weaker now than they have ever been. To deny that is incredibly disingenuous.
I literally never once said not to buff them, but go off. In fact I’m a firm believer they all need to be reverted at the very least:
I said they don’t need buffs, considering that won’t fix the issues tank players have with them in the first place.
Please, quote exactly where I said anything even remotely similar to this.
It’s like you didn’t read anything, and dismissed it due to your inability to see the flaws with your suggestions.
Just like that, the bottleneck is now worse.
Kinda depends on the ratio of BarrierTank to OffTanks.
But even if that’s a wash, you still got the 50% more DPS spots.
And that’s before you get into the barrier tank buffs.
It’s kinda lazily done, but the overview is pretty much there
Wow what an original idea that toally isn’t Reinhardt Queue.
Problem is, by limiting 1 heavy damage per team, you essentially create a new bucket. Under the damage category, it’s still splits those who select heavy damage into their own queue.
Jeff has already outright stated that making more buckets actually increases queue times, it doesn’t decrease it.
Concept fails outright just due to that.
And there are so many other multiple, wife ranging changes required to make tanks and other heroes into a proper “heavy dps” it will only result in further complications.
This also is predicated upon trying to turn tanks into more dps-like functionality that it removes much of their current play styles. Meanwhile, having the high damage output, high HP heavy dps on top of 2 regular dps on one team, really is no different than trying to mandate a main and off-tank role on a team.
That is how high level play will end up working as it is anyway. It is a bunch of crazy, far reaching changes that o my increase queue times, messes in play styles, places more pressure on supports and the tank role, and really will end up falling back to a main and off-tank play.
Concept is just flawed in so many ways
Except not really.
Since it mostly functions as triple DPS.
And the HeavyDamage isn’t a locked Role.
It would mess with it a little bit, because you wouldn’t want two offtank dibs players on the same team, but otherwise it’s not an extra bucket
Okay, this is an extremely interesting concept, so props to you GrayFalcon!
Of course, as you said, Shield Tank would need really major buffs in order for this whole change to work (and unfortunately I don’t thing the DPS - centered Overwatch community is ready for that judging by the mostly unwarranted recent cries for nerfs to Reinhardt).
And of course another issue would be that most probably in the majority of games 3 “pure” DPS would be picked either way due to the sheer nature of this community, but with some really clever algorithm changes to the matchmaker this can certainly be mitigated.
Well there are some downsides to queue time, but there are 3 upsides.
Downsides are
Kinda feel like those upsides more than cancel out the downsides.
Also another upside:
1-1-2-2 will only make q times for dps worse. Currently, tanks are bottleneck here, right? So everyone wait for 4 tanks to start the game. Now those tank players can be of any subrole. You can find like 3 OT players and 1 MT and the game will start. Or 3 MT and 1 OT (which seems unlikely to me). If the requirement will be exactly 2-2, and the distribution of players in subroles is uneven, the less represented tank subrole will become even tighter bottleneck.
Well there are some downsides to queue time
However the upsides are:
Kinda feel like those upsides more than cancel out the downsides.
if you wanna compare mei to a legit tank like hog/zarya/d.va she gon need some buffs.
She squishy as all get out.
Got the covered if they need it.
350hp, 100selfheal, 10sec wall
Not exactly. Cuz this
I am pretty sure there’s more MTs than OTs. So currently tha game starts when tha matchmaker finds 4 random tanks. Any of those. Waiting for 10 minutes to get D.va Hog can be frustrating, but if you want specifically MT main for a team it will take longer. 1-1-2-2 system is kinda better for balance, but not Q times, because if you make requirements for players more restrictive, you will spend more times searching for a player who meets those requirements.
Well if it were just the Tank part, you’d have a point.
Since the additional OffTanks in the DPS queue, kinda cancel out the 50% less main tanks, and large main tank buffs.
However there’s also 50% more DPS spots.
Which is pretty huge, all by itself.
food for thought, the more you divide the roles the longer qeue times you are going to create.
think of it like this, the more you increase the options of playable characters in a role the bigger chance there’s a character in it someone will play.
less characters means less chance there’s a person who will play that role.
at this point it would maybe make more sense to put dps and tanks together in the same role and rework the characters, or better yet remove all restrictions and rework all the outlying characters that break the game by stacking several of the same kind of abilities.
I understand what you’re saying, but I think the upsides cancel out the downsides by a lot.
Keeping in mind, a flat increase from a small number.
Is probably smaller, versus a percentage decrease against a big number.
Again, not exactly. 1 of the slots will be filled by people who previously been queueing as tanks to play dps as Hog or Zarya without waiting. So this split will just divide tank playrbase to those who are actually gonna tank, who wants to pewpew but willing to tank if the second one doesn’t and those who will instalock and play Hog no matter what. two latter categories will queue as “heavy damage” then. And they will be waiting for 2 Tanks to start the game as well. I predict this role will have approximately the same Q times as Supports.