I honestly thought the turret changes made the game what it was supposed to be, an uphill battle on either side to overcome different tiers of defenses and using teamwork, camps and obj to push to victory.
As they are now the turrets are so weak and pointless teams can gather as a 5 man and push a lane as if the turrets are nothing, one to two defenders can’t push back against it. Then it becomes an dull 5v5 battle where teams that are a level or two behind can’t push back by trying to soak experience. The other team can ignore your players and just push to core at 16 with no obj under their belt with how weak it is and force you to fight them levels down or sacrifice valuable keeps.
I don’t understand why you make improvements then immediately run from them instead of letting people work to understand the new system and instead make it easier for a pre-built 5 man to dominate. The game should be for all players not pandering to the competitive high level people who complain that they have to work harder or the grumpy loners who complain about the fact that they have to work harder to solo push a lane.
Maybe instead of nerfing turrets add more game types with difficulty tiers that state that turrets will be weaker or stronger, camps are harder, objs are harder or something. Get more creative than just changing something than immediately walking it back because of a small amount of push back. Making games “easy” takes the fun out of them completely.
Overwhelmingly winning and overwhelmingly losing isn’t fun for anyone I honestly don’t know many people who would say that their favorite games aren’t the ones that are the hard fought edge of your seat games.
We have heroes and objectives balanced around towers with ammo + no targeting. Majority of players wanted this version of targeting. Tbh they could buff forts *+ keeps now though.
While I would love to see the fort/keeps buffed, such as returning the movement/attack speed slow, the way they were designed when the anomaly was first released was problematic because it didn’t impact all heroes equally. Some were technically buffed by the change, such as Sylvanas, and some were very hard nerfed by it, such as Garrosh and Anub’arak.
If it had punished all heroes relatively equally, I wouldn’t have had so many issues with it. This is the same reason I dislike the weather anomaly, but like the changes to XP globes once they fixed issues with things like Lava Wave and increased the soak range.
Players didn’t want the front walls to target heroes, so blizzard changed them (imo this was a good change).
Players also wanted the armor reduction to be a bit weaker, since -40 armor is just TOO much. Blizzard changed this as well and this was good.
But then Blizzard also reduced the damage, which nobody asked for, and now structures are worse than before all this. They should not have done this, just the first 2 changes ._.
Indeed, since players were complaining about the -40 armor debuff, which requires you to facetank 8 consecutive tower shots to stack the debuff that high. Nothing screams skill more than dying to towers.
Let’s compromise here. I propose buffing the Keeps and Forts to slow movement and attack speed because I think that’s wayy more threatening than an armor debuff maybe increase their damage a bit. Towers can have their damage increased but keep the armor debuff.
deathly towers, despite the fact i wasn’t a huge fan of, i have to admit it was one of the best things that the game could have, i think towers were so useful for a moment, but then they go…
Way to strawman. I don’t think I saw a single person complain about that. Most of the early complaints were about the gates shooting you, which made it difficult to duel heroes near the wall, encouraging passive play.
If any of your abilities hit a hero, the towers and structures would all attack you. Objectives and mercs were completely ignored. So having them didn’t protect you.
If two towers stopped a full team of five from pushing a structure, games would last three hours…
Do you realize how OP towers would have to be to stop an entire team? It means you could never push a structure without an objective or a boss. And if you won an objective and anyone on your team died. You wouldn’t get anything out of it.
The points you make are greatly exaggerated. It’s completely false to say that most games end at lvl 16 with one team just dry pushing to core.
It sounds like you’re saying that you should never be a level down.
Forts and keep now focus you as soon as you hit an enemy hero. If they go back to slowing you down, hitting an enemy while you’re pushing becomes a death sentence. And adding a slow would already increase their damage, because you’d take more shots before you can be out of range.
No, that is how you are supposed to push when you have an objective or boss. Not pushing with them is bad tanking. The problem was the buildings would completely ignore everything, so you either got little value out of capturing something, or you drafted Johanna and/or Sylvanas every match, as the other tanks would melt like tissue paper since most of them are designed around having a certain level of armor.
Sure, I could just not engage, but that isn’t being a good tank, either.
Mind you, I have no problems with structures protecting against divers, aggressive heroes, or the like, but discouraging “proper” play with all but a small subset of the tank roster was poor design. Personally, I liked a reasonable armor debuff, or having it stack from the fort/keep only, but everything at once really skewed drafts, which I don’t think is a good thing.
Mechanics requiring skill, fine. Mechanics that punish heroes unequally, not fine.
Isn’t it kind of the point every time you change something as fundamental as game systems? All heroes exist and perform within the same boundaries and when those change, of course all balance considerations are going to be thrown upside down. It was a tuning work down from there to set things right within the scope of what they wanted to do with towers and how they wanted each type of hero to interact with them. Personally, I liked old towers. They felt like true safe havens and I liked the challenge of keeping everyone up under enemy towers as they were going for a pick as a healer, made the pick all the more rewarding. But eh. I feel like reverting some towers back to how they worked before was an easy way out in the end.
Once again I don’t quite see your point as changes to XP globes didn’t affect all heroes equally either (as all changes to base game functions have and will), like I feel some heroes have a better time in lane especially bullies while others have had more trouble than ever before collecting XP, but that doesn’t mean the anomaly is either good or bad. I think shaking everything up once in a while is a good thing, even though the heroes I play are affected negatively. It brings change and a motivation to try new things, and as long as it is not dropped down change for the only sake of itself like the weather anomaly I welcome it.
Sort of. Some changes can impact some heroes more than others, but without disrupting their basic design. For example, the global movespeed change definitely affected heroes relying on skill shots more than ranged AA heroes, but they in turn got the benefit of being able to dodge enemy skill shots more easily. The change, especially the armor debuff, didn’t affect tanks as a class, but specific tanks. It also impacted divers without them getting any benefit in return.
As I have stated often, I do like the idea of structures being stronger, just not the way it was implemented.
Initially, the design was poor as it dramatically impacted heroes that were designed to soak XP at a distance, so I did oppose that aspect, and it was changed. They also extended the soak distance as well as the travel speed of the globes, which I think did bring it into balance. Yes, the current design does impact some heroes more than others, but those are the heroes that really shouldn’t be in the solo lane in the first place. I know it happens, especially in QM, but I don’t think the core of the game should be changed for QM weirdness.
I do like changes, and am always willing to give them a solid try before commenting, and am completely fine with them if the tweaks they make balance them out.
