I mean, lets be honest, “Stealth” in this game only means “untargetable” nothing more, and in a game where like 90% of all skills are skillshots, “untargetable” is not really usefull.
You have to be blind not to spot the “stealth” hero the second hes on screen, they could as well just show the character model.
So, yeah I get it, permanent stealth is broken, DOTA shows that, LoL learned from it, but just making it useless while still balancing the heroes in a way that would imply that they could become stealthed isnt really the answer.
Why not solve it like LoL did, i think they did a good job making stealth work depending on how close enemys are to you. So when no enem heroes are near you, you are really invisible, and when you get closer, you first become “stealthed” and then just plain visible. That would be better than what we have right now where every enemy knows your location the moment a single creep walks next to you…
It also hides you from the minimap and lets you go perfectly invisible if you stand still. Being invisible on the minimap means that someone needs to actively have their camera on you to know that you’re there. Perfect invisibility means nobody will be able to tell you’re there outside of a reveal or randomly throwing out damage there.
It was about as visible before the changes anyway, now they just made it easier for those who had bad eyesight or poor computer screens.
Stealth has always been visible if you paid attention, only now they have access to true stealth by standing still for a while. I know I’m repeating this but it’s important.
If we took League Camo, that’d be a buff basically just Nova, since the other stealth heroes need to be up close and this would mean Valeera could be right clicked out of stealth, as would Samuro.
Fine, but at least they could not balance the heroes around being invisible, because… well, they are not.
When you play Nova or Valeera, you have to pray that the enemy team makes a big mistake, because you cant really make a play, because once you try, they see you, they reveal you, and they kill you because right now, you are balanced around “Well, you are invisible”, which you are clearly not…
The whole "stealth’ concept has always been flawed in this game especially after they “reworked” it.
I don’t like all the stealth heroes having such high HP pools and tons of escape options. I’d much rather them go back to being hard to spot but with tiny HP pools much more so then now. I’m tired of Zeratul teleporting 20 times in a row it’s just annoying.
Being good enough to spot a stealth hero should be the reward and being able to easily kill them. Now spotting them doesn’t even matter most of the time because they can just get out whenever and come back again.
If you’re running up to an enemy in a straight line while in stealth, dying then complaining about it, then that’s your own fault. If you sit in an area with true invisibility and then attack when your enemy is distracted, that would most likely allow you to get them. It’s not stealth’s fault that you’re not engaging right. Also not to mention stealth’s innate power of making you immune to auto-attacks. People need to use a spell to reveal you.
Valeera has both of her heroics, her Q and her Vanish. Her heroics are really good for escaping and her Q is good as long as your enemy does not completely surround you.
Nova gets Ghost Protocol baseline which give her instant stealth and a free clone every 60 seconds. That’s a pretty damn good ability to have baseline for a stealth hero who can one shot people.
Both of Valeera’s heroics double as escape tools and aggressive offensive tools. If you don’t talent into Q build Sinister Strike is also pretty good range on whiff.
Which is irrelevant because of his numerous teleports. Your chain CC has to be on point to take him down and if you don’t draft any, especially in QM he kinda just gets to do whatever he wants. After 16/20 he becomes near unkillable.
He has 1 teleport as an escape. At lvl 20 he can choose to get the amazing set up heroic that is Void Prison (literally wins team fights by itself) or he can pick Might of the Nerazim and use it for a 2nd blink on a 20 second cooldown. IDK about you, but that sounds like 1 blink pre-10, and 2 blinks post-10 on a 20 second cooldown.
I agree that his 16/20 makes him a 1v9 kind of hero, but you can counterplay this by splitting up and not allowing Zeratul the empowered Cleave. As for Wormhole at lvl 7, if Zeratul isn’t blinking in from a safe location, just go to wherever he initially blinked from and wait for him while someone else pressures him.
Not really.
Firstly as Valeera most of the time I engage unstealthed, stealth in their face, then hit them with an opener. Unstealthed she has her dash to avoid skill shots as she approaches (even baiting out the hard hitting ones, which is a big deal for your allies), and to help her escape the stunned + blinded, or silenced enemy. If you aren’t going to stick around and just kill them.
Nova has good range, you play as if you’re unstealthed. What do unstealthed ranged assassins do when they have no mobility? They attack from within their allies, rather than trying to flank only to have the entire enemy team dive away from their allies and onto them. You play as if you aren’t stealthed, then when opportunities arise to take advantage of your stealth you do. It’s a bonus, not a core part of playing the hero.
Part of Nova’s ability to take advantage of it is the whole minimap thing + Bribe.
Or setting up ambushes where an ally looks alone and vulnerable and there’s no bushes around, so the enemy runs past you to attack the ally, then suddenly gets 2v1’d.
Honestly, I am not a good player, hell, not even an average player, and I never met a Nova or Valeera that were not laughable easy to counter. "Oh look, a “stealth” hero my blind grandma could spot. Let me throw one of my low CD AoE spells at it. Done, now all thats left is a squishy, weak assassin with no real opener, escape or ace in the hole.
Its useless because when its not it is oppressive as hell. Trust me, if you never experienced the reign of Nova in the closed beta, and then Zeratul though the beta and release for a good long time. Then you are lucky.
Stealth mechanics will never be balanced in this game.
I agree they made stealth useless with the changes, it’s just an anti-fun version of untargetabble and contradictory to a stealth fantasy/playstyle, valeera was one of my favorite heroes pre-stealth but now it’s depressing to even try to use it
Well if you’re not good, they probably aren’t good.
And if they aren’t good, they may be relying on stealth, which they shouldn’t do.
I don’t play Valeera exclusively or anything, but I spend most of my time unstealthed as her, stealthing only when I need it. I never have a worry of not having my opener.
I mean, I don’t think she’s in a good spot. It seems most people go Q build, because that can do damage. I tend to go a more utility approach which kind of leaves me feeling more like a tank than an assassin (using CC to peel and call targets, and full stacked Fatal Finesse)
She’s built for 1v1 fights, but like many melee assassins, struggles outside of those.
I do think she needs her talents to affect both opener and regular abilities rather than going all in on openers.
And I do think stealth should have offered more stuff like Nova’s Covert Ops, and Zeratul’s Shroud of Adun.
Nova’s and Valeera’s grant movement speed, though I think they should have been more unique per the hero’s role, like Nova’s maybe granting range on abilities instead of speed.
A minor one on her 1 with activatable stealth + distraction, and more importantly she has range. Shoot people from distance, then back away before they can retaliate. Obviously some Heroes can catch you if you do so, but that’s just a matter of choosing the right targets. Shoot Heroes that won’t kill you for doing so, or wait until conditions are favorable enough (have an ally around, or attack when the enemy is low).
Besides, most of the time you shouldn’t be trying to escape anyway. Your job as Nova is to pick off squishy or isolated targets. If you are going in, you’re supposed to be winning the trade, and the enemy should be the one trying to escape you.
Agreed. Current stealth is a joke. Should completely removed it and rework Nova/Zeratul into a proper hero like others. “Stealth” trait gimped Nova/Zeratul way too much.
They are not. Pre-‘stealth rework’, the stealth Heroes were balanced around being “hard to see” and kept low for QM newbs.
New stealth and their Heroes are not balanced around being invisible, since the whole point of the stealth rework was to make stealth Heroes as visible as to anyone at higher ranks who had the technology or skill to see them.