Nazeebo spider build winrate is 44% according to Heroes Profile.
Some people like it (Fan said so but he could have been joking), personally I like it more. Mostly because I play him in QM and melee heroes are not a common sight.
That being said, 44% is still trash tier. It’s not a Li-Ming problem - it is very much possible to hit Q and also there is no trait that suddenly grants 20 spiders at once or somesuch (resets).
The hero overall is 48%, which isn’t outstanding either.
What’s so wrong about it and why isn’t it buffed?
Are there some players who are 80% winrate with it in tournaments, or something?
I suppose a slight buff to Q itself could resolve the winrate, the talents themselves seem fine to me. Except maybe 16, I don’t see the point.
Toad build allows you to have strong AOE burst dmg which also applies DoT. It’s more consistent to hit in a team fight and easier to use and offers wave clear.
Spider build, while much higher DPS than toad build, requires your opponent to stand still. So unless every zombie wall is succesful or you have a bunch of CC on your team, the dmg from spider build is quite lower than toad build. Spider a lot more difficult to use effectively. Sure if somebody like Fan can use it effective, then the dmg is way higher on singular targets. But, most ppl do not play at GM skill level.
By the way, if 44% can be strong, then can 56% be too weak? Li Li buffs please!
Well, umm, that’s the point of statistics It is 19300 matches, 3-4000 of which took Q talents.
1:1 in SL, 4:6 in QM. If anything that’s statistically insignificant
I came to ask because people regularly comment ****bo and similar things including the odd game when I go hard MVP (best in all stats). Fail just one of those, I’m supposedly useless.
So either I take those things as a personal insult or a hero insult. All I know that unlike a month ago, now I’m matched with silvers and bronzes (against silvers and the odd plat). Without MMR information I can’t tell whether I’m expected to carry, or I have hero specific bronze MMR (and still can’t carry, boo), or what. The only “role model” I have is how Fan just laughs at chat. But he can do so confidently, while I can’t…
That being said, Twin Blades has a similar treatment. (Which has, by the way, the highest winrate, and I’ve lost to it a lot.) So maybe it’s just random insults because insulting others is just so much fun.
Here’s my hypothesis as to why I think Q build has fallen off as Nazeebo’s best build:
Nazeebo received a rework on September 27, 2016 which added the Level 16 talent Spider Colony. The talent had a completely different functionality, which made it so that Corpse Spiders recharges twice as fast if above X amount of health (not a % health threshold like what many others have instead). This lowered the cooldown of Q from 9 seconds to a whopping 4.5 seconds. Spider build combined with Vile Infection’s old 200% bonus damage modifier, this made Nazeebo one of the strongest late game mages in the entire game and made him prime HGC material for teams that can successfully utilize him.
People can dodge it. It’s a tricky skillshot to consistently hit, yet that is required for it to be effective.
Also it might’ve been part of the movespeed changes, I think spiders used to be better at keeping up with running targets. (no idea if this is actually true though).
Main problem is that his spiders, when talented into are already the basic ability with highest damage potential in the game. They can deal over 2000 damage (on 9 sec cooldown), even without Vile Infection. And with it, they can deal over 2800 damage!
A single cast of this ability takes away 80% of a squishy’s HP. They just die if they are also trapped in a zombie wall.
There is no reason to buff a basic ability that can already 1-shot squishies.
I knoe its a joke but im replying serious
Ming has a negative winrate but is very strong.
But her problem is that everyone thinks they can play ming. So that gives a very confused winrate.
Also the “mains” have only a small %
Better explained lets say 1/10 who play the hero is a main. And 5/10 actually knows how to play her. So again very confusing to get a good winrate
(Hopefully you understand my rambling because I find this difficult to explain on paper)
Cool. You disagree. Your post tells nobody anything unfortunately, so you’re opinion means nothing until you explain to OP and everyone else why. Perhaps I am wrong, but how can ppl believe what you say?
All i did was explain to OP why one is more favorable over the other.
As well, I never claimed that toads contribute to more kill, I said and I quote “Toad build allows you to have strong AOE burst dmg which also applies DoT. It’s more consistent to hit in a team fight and easier to use and offers wave clear.” Nothing in there mention landing kills. It just says more consistent dmg in team fights, which is true, for most players. Lower skill curve by comparison to spider build, so it’s safer to use.
Spider build’s dmg is reduced if the hero is running around since the spiders are forced to chase. This is fact. Argue it all you want it matters not. I also never claimed that you have to be a GM to use spider build. Please quit throwing falsehoods. Ill quote again “Spider a lot more difficult to use effectively. Sure if somebody like Fan can use it effective, then the dmg is way higher on singular targets. But, most ppl do not play at GM skill level.”
As you can see, I never claimed that you had to be a GM player to use it, but OP was referring to Fan who is a top 5 GM player. While his input is valuable, most ppl cannot play at the lvl Fan plays, that include everyone in this thread. If ppl wish to use spider build and they’re successful with it, kudos to them, but the average player base does not play like Fan, I’ve seen him play and that guy is way good. I’m not able to pull 90% of the stuff he pulls off.
Yep. If a hero has anything less than 10k uploaded for the week, the sample size is just too tiny to draw any conclusions from (hotslogs had way more on the most popular heroes).
For that very reason it is also very hard to get reliable stats on niche heroes like Probius at the moment. There is no way to know his truly best performing builds unless you work at Blizzard.
It’s completely off-topic but I wish Blizzard just offered us a stat browser.
It’s not like any of their partners would be harmed. Last I know ZAM abandoned it.
I don’t want to theorize on why they would want to keep data and information for themselves.
I just like shotgunning AoE frogs.
Spiders don’t do it for me. I get ganked and killed as soon as I get into decent spider throwing range. With the frogs, I can set it and forget it
Spider build = skill shot
Spider build = spiders can hit multiple heroes thus damage is spread
Spider build = 1 ability opposed to toads is 2
Spider build = cannot separate teams like toads
Spider build = cannot wave clear as efficient as toads
When I first started with Naz, I loved the spider build then realised the toad build in most situations is better
It is 19300 matches, 3-4000 of which took Q talents.