Not calculating creeps in is a big mistake. Its still 35 HP per creep. Even with Q width, its not hard to hit 2 heroes or 1 hero + 2/3 creeps.
Per your numbers, second wind giving you 30 hp/attack is like Q hitting 1 creep.
Thus hitting hero + 2 creeps is 210 hp, which is like 7 attacks…
Agreed, I don’t understand how people can justify taking Victory Rush or Lion. Actually Rush is even worse, if a teamfight has no minions around, you have no lv7 talent at all.
No, Lastai, I’m talking about the Extra healing that Lionheart gives you.
It gives you 50% bonus for heroes. It does not increase the healing for non-heroes.
Yes, but you don’t lose that healing by taking second wind or victory rush.
The talent gives you 50% healing extra against heroes from your Q. So i’m counting only that 50% Because you get the rest with or without the talent.
It’s 30 EXTRA an attack. And in 8 seconds, if you’re in a creep wave, you should be able to execute 10 attacks, or 300 hp.
300 more HP than the 0 that going lionheart gives you.
hitting a hero and 2 creeps WITHOUT lionheart is: 210 HP gained.
Hitting a hero and 2 creeps WITH lionheart is: 280 HP gained.
So Lionheart got you 70 extra HP.
Second Wind would give you about 30 extra hp per attack, provided that you’re over 50% hp.
So after ~2.5 seconds, 3 attacks, second wind would have healed 90 hp extra over baseline. If you are under 50% hp, second wind will heal about 65-70 hp/attack without HKQ.
Victory Rush is justified 100% on Infernal Shrines. The objective where you have to kill 40 of the monsters to get a punisher is super good for victory rush because them dying to enemies also counts towards it’s cooldown reduction.
So you can get it to trigger every few seconds.
Otherwise, maps where you are fighting near minion waves are the ones where Victory Rush is arguably viable, for example:
Tomb of the Spider Queen rarely has fights away from minions, so Victory Rush can trigger 5-6+ times in a fight.
Dragon Shrine arguably is good also, as objectives/fighting points are right be minion waves for the same thing.
Lionheart is, I guess you’re supposed to take it if you’re not on Infernal Shrines, and the enemy team has loads of blinds.
Or if you expect to be wondering around at lowish hp and need to be able to burst heal and are expecting to hit 4-5 people on the enemy team with Lion’s Fang. In which case you’re deliberately playing badly to make the talent get value.
I get your point. 
Will need to test it in game.
Hope that goes well!
And sorry for my tone… not best to write comments after 3 low quality garbage games.
I was a bit to intense I think… making a relatively small thing into a mountain.
Thanks. Forgot Monsters also reduce the cd by 10 seconds (not just Minions).
I see some people taking it on maps like Cursed Hollow and just wonder what goes on in these peoples heads. Zero value in most Tribute fights.
I just like the sound it makes when you proc quest progress.
Ping!
Dude… the healing doesn’t increase for minions?
Earlier you said Q quest at level 1 improves the level 7 talent now this?
Reading all the misinformation and misconceptions by so many people in this thread (not knowing monsters on shrines reduce the cd, thinking victory rush is useless without proccing the cd reduction, thinking victory rush is bad on cursed hollow) just seems to make it more and more clear that people who pick lionheart at level 7 just don’t really know what they’re doing or what the talent does and are picking a trash talent they think is good…
The fact that Lion’s Fang is ranged.
The fact that it heals every 8 seconds, not every 30, so provides a middle ground for healing between Second Wind’s constant sustain and Victory Rush’s infrequent burst.
All 3 of them are good at different things.
I just wish you could turn off Victory Rush like Spell Shield, so you don’t accidentally trigger it when missing 10 hp.
As a level 128 varian, I am telling you are wrong.
Under no circumstances should you take Q for taunt varian. None whatsoever. Well, unless you play vs AI and want to derp around.
under 50% HP without HKQ:
Lionheart: 70 bonus healing for hitting a hero
AA: ~67 bonus healing for hitting a hero.
w/ HKQ: ~97 bonus healing for hitting a hero.
Lionheart is just bad. Because even if you land it perfectly (always hitting 5 heroes) and cast it the moment it is off cooldown… attacking about half as often as you can as Varian heals about as much (under 50% HP).
As a general rule of thumb, one attack <50% hp with second wind without HKQ is equal to one extra hero with Lion’s Fang. I have no idea how anyone can look at that and come out thinking that Lionheart is okay.
You have only have the chances to hit the targets (10 changes to attack, 5 heroes to hit) and it is much easier to AA than cast a skillshot, assuming you’ve engaged.
And if you have not engage… Why are you away from engagement with your health so low that you cannot cast lion’s fang for it’s baseline healing, before charging in and getting a few attacks off.
You could give lion’s fang 1 second CDR for each enemy hero hit, and for sustain, it would still be worse than Second Wind.
I’ll take it a step further, with a “always attacking” which I think is fair given I am assuming Lion’s fang is being instantly cast once off cooldown.
thanks for the backup. My 26 levels isn’t nearly as much, but it is clear enough (especially with the math done) that Q healing is bad.
100% agree.
I have seen a lot of math here, but for me, primary choice for talent is its usability against enemy composition and map.
Is there is prolonged fight? What keeps me healed when poking happens all around … with lionfang you take 1-2 range poke and you entering fight on half hp. Under this circumstances healing outside of fight will have better value. I rather enter fight on full hp with no heal than half hp with mathmathmath healing.
And how about afterparty? Tf finished, you low on hp, map is large. With lionfang you have no other option than recall, heal, walk back. Lot of time wasted. I see more usefull to clear lane, or camp and heal on it. This is why I dont like lionfang and I find other two much better.
Lion’s fang ALREADY heals you baseline.
This is a bonus healing that you’re choosing a different one for.
Taking Second Wind DOES NOT cause Lion’s Fang to suddenly lose it’s baseline healing.
If Lion’s Fang without the upgrade won’t get your HP high enough to engage and attack ~5 times at most, than your HP is to low to engage with Lionheart regardless.
Uh, maybe I don’t understand, but you seem to be saying that the math is wrong… followed by saying that Lionheart is bad.
I’m confused.
Why are you making that assumption?
Because sometimes that is suicidal.
Funny. Guess no one kites where you play?
Or drops skill shots on melee heroes moving predictably.
Because you’re on a hero who has a gap closer and a slow baseline.
Even if you only attack once every 1.6 seconds, missing every other attack, without HKQ, you would need to hit 4.5 heroes with lion’s fang right after it goes off cooldown every time* to keep up equal HP healing.
But you have baseline lion’s fang healing anyways.
If the extra 70 hp/hero from Lionheart is the only thing that will let you engage, you have other problems and I don’t think there is a reasonable scenario where that extra hp, probably only 140 usually, is going to make an engage good versus getting that healing after 2 auto-attacks.
Given that my assumptions for Lion’s Fang casting is:
If I’m assuming I don’t need to position or aim or wait a bit incase I need the slow to stay on my target. Or cast it unoptimally to slow down someone chasing an ally, or to zone.
Do note, that my assumption where you only attack half as often as optimally, you would still need to hit 4.5 heroes with each lion’s fang cast (casting right away!) to keep up in healing with Second Wind once your hp is below half.
It’s like you didn’t even read what I wrote.
Oh I read it, it’s just dumb.
If you’re attacking once every 1.6 seconds the enemy team is made of statues, or they’re doubling down on the “never attack the tank” nonsense.
Yes… in which case, Lionheart’s extra healing will do, what again?
The point is that even when you hilariously nerf auto-attacking to be unrealistically slow, it still keeps up and even beats 100% optimal lion’s fang usage.
Yet people are still defending lionheart.
Give me a at least semi-realistic scenario where Lionheart’s bonus healing being frontloaded on taunt varian is meaningful.
The only thing I can think of is against some team that is loaded with blinds. Li Li, Cassia, Artanis, Johanna and Valeera. and I will happily agree that in ultra-niche scenarios where the whole team is built to counter AAs, Lionheart is better.
Frankly i think all his level 7 talents suck for taunt.
Lucky we have such an expert like you to save the day and enlighten us all!
Thank you. 
Range, slows, persistant aoes, mobility when used to get away from you but in a restricted area. They influence the choice even if they don’t blatantly control it.
It’s not great, I almost always pick Victory Rush, but there are situations where it’s more use-able.
Anyway I almost always do things differently from the accepted norm, like playing TLV in solo lane, so it’s hard to get people to see my point when my play style wouldn’t work for them.
I usually play pretty defensive in team fights, waiting for a good opening, where repeated small heals are better than no heals.