What this game could use to help create a fun, and skillful carry

It is.

  1. LoL
  2. DOTA 2
  3. HotS

That’s every complain about every multiplayer online "team"game ever.
Tho I don’t play other mobas, I saw sone LoL forum threads and have friends who play LoL as well as HotS and that complain always exist.

?
I don’t mind skill. I like skill. I just don’t find it skillful if I can win via snowballs.
If you’re not getting how riding the snowball actually takes away the need of skill because ppl can chill on their earlier achievments’ effects I don’t know what to say to you.
Ppl want to be good in the earlygame and sit on their prev glory. Me? I want to concentrate 0-24 on the match because I like that every mistake can be the last, I cannot lose focus or play more lightly/carelessly. My skills and attention is needed for the whole duration of the gamd.

I didn’t talk about it’s casual charm.
What charm I talked about is:

  • Blizz characters
  • real teamgame

Hardcore highly skilled “pros” should foem teams and compete with each other imo if they want less casual experiences.
(But everyone wants to remain a lonewolf in a social teamgame.)

3 Likes

There is no skill in heroes though. At least not solo skill. You can’t do anything alone. The game is tailored to forcing you into a party for any and all results. That is the difference between this, and league, where you can be a good player and solo the game just fine. Quests are snowbally but only if you are good enough to use them to their potential. It isn’t something that is supposed to be easy, it isn’t something you can just sit on. Take a look at chromie’s old infinite Q scaling. A good chromie could easily carry on her own but a bad one would be a hindrance to your team. Chromie being what she was before was actually good for the game. The only reason she was overpowered in a sense though was because she was the only one with infinite scaling. But give that to everyone and suddenly anyone can carry with any hero if they can play them properly. The more stand out you can become, the better the player mentality will be when viewing the game. A lot of the toxicity comes from being forced to cooperate with your team who are all random people with varying skill levels. Not everyone will cooperate, hell 90% won’t cooperate properly. When it comes to that it just makes for a bad gaming experience.

And yes, Heroes is technically 3 but heroes is so far behind the other two that it doesn’t matter. Heroes just barely makes enough money to sustain itself. The other two games flourish. Heroes is not doing that at all.

I don’t like this proposal.

First:
You seem to see these quests only from one side. Say, a “bad player” is losing a game for you once again (in a thus far unspecified way). Fortunately, Blubbelz is riding in and thanks to him skilfully questing all game, he wins the 4v5, saving the day and everybody lives happily ever after.
Did you consider the other viewpoint? Instead of the “bad player” losing the game for you by doing what they do now, all of the sudden they help the enemy stack faster. Why? Because they are “bad”. We have seen them; the tanks that let themselves get attacked by Zul’jin or players that stand in Kaelthas or Azmo Q. With the new quests, they would do the very thing you try to avoid: let the enemy stack faster than you can. You merely created one more argument over which a team can flame each other.

Second:
Heroes are pushed into a specific niche - talents today try to mitigate that by allowing different builds and somewhat flexible roles. However, once you give a hero a (baseline) quest that they have to succeed in in order to reach their full potential, there is no way around that.
It’s already problematic with Nazeebos laning all game. Novas cannot bush check with their Q because their stacks are on the line. Old Chromie couldn’t use Q to check somewhere because every hit not hitting an enemy is wasted damage in later regards. Tyrande’s owl was intended as a scouting device - until she received the infinite quest for damage increase and it became a damage skillshot. Shooting it to scout meant wasting damage.
This would go on. A hero needs to collect globes for their quest? They will jump between lanes and do camps. Need hits on heroes? No incentive to do camps as long as the enemy is there. Even today, we get complains that Muradin has to throw his hammer at every opportunity to get the quest finished asap instead of waiting for a good moment.
More and more you clear-cut a hero’s role and they have to farm in that to stay relevant all game. As a side “benefit”, draft becomes even more important, as heroes are less flexible.

8 Likes

What shows a good player from a bad one is not how long you farm but how you can balance getting your stacks while also doing everything you are supposed to do. That adds complexity in my eyes. Heroes who just go out of their way to do nothing but stack will be a flawed move on their part as they free the enemy to do other things. All infinite quests are supposed to be used for is to reward players for doing what they should be doing. Now yes, a bad player can help the enemy get stacks, but so long as you are on top of things as well, you can at least contest them and carry over your power spike into a team fight. I mean even in league a bad player can just feed and give enemies the advantage. But the pros still manage to overcome those games by simply outplaying their opponents. This game lacks outplay aside from a group effort which is impossible to mobilize outside of com parties. 90% of players solo play, so the game should not be balanced around com parties, it should be balanced around the solo player.

Please look away from pro play for a moment, as I do not expect a single player there to show behaviour that you try to mitigate with your proposal.
There are hundreds of ways an average game in gold / plat can go wrong. I do agree that quests of this kind allow for more individuality. But do they improve on the general gameplay? In the end, it’s one more job to be taken out by the average player - and one more to potentially screw up. So in the grand scheme of things, I don’t see how the current situation would improve. As has been demonstrated multiple times, players that are good enough will climb, even out-balancing the throwers in their teams (this one dude only had like 10 losses on his trip from b5 to p1).

4 Likes

therin lies the problem. Unless there is some way that makes it easier to gain stacks by losing team fights, it will simply not work out this way.

2 Likes

it works in League with gold, doesn’t it? This isn’t a completely refined system, but with the idea I am sure there is a way to make this more balanced. All I want from Hots is the ability to be able to solo more in games. To be the team, to stop being forced to rely on my team for every little thing. There should be a carry. Moba games don’t work without a carry and they sure don’t work here. It’s literally only made for a group who all know each other playing on coms and forming strategies. So… basically 1% of the playerbase. Why is the game balanced for the 1%?

If you want game can carry, please play another moba game, hots is different than another moba that why I play hots :blush:

3 Likes

I personally prefer repeatable and perishable quests like maybe hit 3 enemy heroes twice and gain a bonus and then lose it after 4 takedowns. Thats actually my idea for illidan actually.

Game doesn’t work though. You can like it but you have to understand it’s not doing well and only is falling more and more by the day. It needs changes. It needs them.

And @KyX

Yes you can rank up if you’re good but that still doesn’t make it fun, it doesn’t make it engaging having to rely on teammates and hope you get the luck of the draw. You can definitely get lucky and get decent teammates several times in a row and rank up to Masters, but the times you don’t which happen the most often feel bad and make the game downright unplayable.

You keep repeating an untrue statement ad nauseam.
If you are good enough, you won’t have to rely on the draft and instead you will be able to carry the match. Hard. As has been proven by every bronze to master challenge out there.

3 Likes

I never said you couldn’t be good and get to masters. But still, there isn’t any real carry potential. You can rally your team better and maybe they will follow your lead, and you can land all your skillshots and play better than your opponent who can’t, but there is never a moment where you, as the individual can ever really get the upperhand or become stronger than the opponent team. Never is there a moment where you can get strong enough to wipe the enemy team out 1v5 in a matter of seconds like with league. I can’t ever handle the enemy team on my own, no matter what, no matter how good I am, I will always require my team for back up and relying on them isn’t fun.

Well, thank you for saying it now. Make up your mind.

Couldn’t the same thing be accomplished by getting rid of healers and tanks and making sure that every ability one-shots people? You’re asking for the game to become rocket tag.

Instead of fixing the source of most of the problems - the matchmaking of players, the developers put a lot of crutches interfering in the mechanics of the game that worked well, but crutches are just crutches and they can not solve the problem of snowball … simply because they are crutches. Until the matchmaking is fixed, there will be no fun. It’s like putting the coolest football team against newcomers and telling them: "- Hey, have fun!

I would suggest a gradual decrease in the rating points if the player does not play for a long time for all ranks, not only for those who are above platinum.

P.s. I’ve been everywhere except the bronze league and the master, have 9k games of exp., and I can say that the platinum league has the worst swamp of all ranks.

Lol people want such "fun’ and “skillfull” carry system…until they get on the other side of the fun and cry how “snowbally” “unfair” “easy” it is to achieve.

3 Likes

Thanks goodness! That’d be horrible!
You know that that’s possible only because your numbers are broken, right? Sure you fought to get your broken numbers, but that’s just being proud to sit on the top of the snowball.
You achieved a point of no return for the enemy.
And that’s why LoL has Surrender, and HotS doesn’t, thanks goodness!

2 Likes

As usual - they are not as good as they think and implementing such a thing would show (once again) that players belong where they are.

1 Like

I don’t think people know what a snowball effect is :slight_smile:

This game has scaling, for sure. Some of the examples demonstrate this - like a team fight win late game. That isn’t snowballing, that is just certain things mattering more late game.

Snowballing is the opposite, it would be where a late game team fight win, meant ZERO to the game. One team would have built a lead and so much momentum that nothing the other team did could get them a win.

Overall, I think HoTs has few snowballs.

1 Like