More quests… but infinitely scaling quests. Essentially just give more heroes if not all heroes a quest that ramps up their damage by doing skillful things through the match. A good player will ramp up their scaling so high that they will become a dominant force in teamfights. I think this will help replace items which in my opinion was something crucial to the moba formula which is now lost. There is no way to beef up your character, no way to scale better than your opponent other than very limited options that require a massive group effort.
And I know there are heroes who have infinite scaling quests and those quests tend to be bad… but it’s easy to fix just ramp up the numbers a bit. Make them more impactful.
5 Likes
I think not. This game already has way too many snowball mechanics, and almost none for reversing them.
Might be cool to have an “infinitely accumulating” quest, but it stops accumulating when a level 16 talent is picked.
9 Likes
Infinite scaling quests are a way to reverse some snowball effects caused by your team failing you. If everyone has a quest that increases their scaling, if an opponent starts to snowball, it’s because they earned it. They outplayed and worked for their dominance much like how it happens in League.
Really I feel like a lot of the problem snowballs comes from your teammates. You could be an amazing player but you will always be as strong as your weakest link, and if they continue to screw you over during objectives then yes, your opponent will snowball. But the addition of scaling quests based on the skill of an individual gives you the chance to become powerful enough to make up for your allies mistakes and not feel so helpless when you are forced into a match with someone who is just not on the level they should be.
2 Likes
Some of these exist already but don’t actually do that much.
Alarak, Nazeebo, Zuljin all come to mind. The game has some late game carry heroes already, but they usually encourage snow ball more because they are weaker early.
I think you could add more of these to the game, but the outcome wouldn’t work quite like you think. It isn’t a bad idea though, late game heroes can be fun and I wouldn’t mind seeing a few of the current roster receive reworks making them more of late game monsters.
Infinite quests are tricky. Look at the old Chromie.
In the hands of a really good Chromie who was good at hitting her Q’s, she became a monster hitting like a truck.
In the hands of a newbie Chromie so was she a worthless pick that had 0 damage because she barely accumulates any quest stacks.
For Chromie it was particularly troublesome as her long range made it difficult to avoid or prevent her from stacking unlike say, Zuljin, where he can either be focused, avoided or blinded to prevent him from stacking.
I am not against infinite quests, but my point is that they are difficult to balance. And they become situationally OP or useless depending on how reliant they are on the quest.
8 Likes
I think that high skill heroes like Chromie should have high skill infinite quests. But the balance is their quests give them a major powerspike. The simpler the hero, the simpler the quest, but it gives a weaker power spike. But if it’s simple, you will be managing the quest more, so you will come about equal to the chromie player.
Infinite Q Chromie could carry games in all the non-grand master leagues. But only if the player was particularly good at aiming.
It’s sad they decided to remove this feature from the game and capped her at 50 stacks.
I like this idea. There definitly needs to be some way for good player to have more impact, and this could work
that’s the exception, not the rule. What usually happens is the winning team gets more stacks out of fights than the losing team, and thus wins the next fight all the easier, getting still more stacks from that, and so on…
9 Likes
I like the challenging quests that give a good reward, but Butcher is a bit too dependent on his.
Well, that’s just winning and losing a fight in general. There will always be a punishment for losing team fights. I mean, in league, winning team gets more gold, buys more items, snowballs ahead. That’s just how Moba’s work. At the very least with this system you can get stronger to help make up for bad team members. That’s how the league system works. Even if you have a stinker you can get fed and win the team fight all on your own if you’re good enough at the game.
I like how little snowball effects HotS has, so thx no, don’t introduce snowbally stuff.
2 Likes
The game has insane snowball mechanics, haha. More so than league. The game has such a huge problem that one team member can cost you the whole game in the blink of an eye. Games that make you feel completely helpless are not good. My system doesn’t add anymore snowball effects than what are already present in full force. Again, all this would do is allow you the ability to carry your team through your own independent skill. Relying on teamates for anything is inconsistent and leads to inconsistent winrates despite your level of play. Play a hero who requires a tank to land his skill shots so you can follow up? Well if your tank sucks at landing cc, you suddenly can’t do your job as well, and to no fault of your own. Hyper team focus on a game made for the casual audience with random ques DOES. NOT. WORK.
Like being incredible hard to get 2+ lvl difference?..
That’s quite delusional.
Or luck. But you won’t admit that luck exist which can be more and more easily abused the more snowball mechanics the game has. A first fight can be won by luck and if there’s an advantage, a lead you can get merely from winning fights, it can escalate.
I’m not a fun of the “individual skill carry” thingie. Getting broken so you can shine thanks to your number advantage is dumb in my eyes. HotS has ways to carry if you’re better than the others in that match. If you’re not better than the others, you shouldn’t carry, and that’s how it is here.
5 Likes
You can be the best heroes player in the world but you will lose because of one person. That’s how it always goes, right? It’s not luck… or maybe it is. Luck of the draw depending on what players you get matched with. I can’t even count how many games have been lost thanks to someone getting caught out doing something stupid right before an objective opens up leaving us at such a massive disadvantage that they then proceed to snowball like crazy from one little spark of an advantage. That’s heroes in a nutshell. Late game you lose one player you lose the whole match. If that isn’t snowball I don’t know what is.
That’s called a throw and not a snowball.
That happens, and it feels awful most the times. But with your suggestion those crucial [throw] moments can happen earlier when it’s not even lategame when the game wants you to either win or lose but quickly so the match won’t last for an eternity.
And that is almost never the case in my experience.
What I saw from my many games is that the whole team made a ton of small mistakes which makes “that one” even more negatively impactful. Usually throws are just the last drops of a glass of mistakes made by the whole team.
And if you’re the “bestest”, it’s pretty hard for anyone to throw your games. Not saying it’s impossible, since the impossible thing is to have a 100% winrate, but if one bad can have such an impact so can one immensely good.
2 Likes
Hmm body blocking is a pretty skilful thing to do.
So every time a tank goes beside an enemy hero he gains some sort of benefit?
Doesn’t sound abusable at all /s
My point being, there are a million and one skilful things you could do. Some of them you could make quests for (e.g. scoring takedowns), others you can’t (e.g. bodyblocking). So why create quests for some and not others and skew the incentives heavily in favour of certain skilful elements but not others?
1 Like
I am proposing skillful quests that require some thought and planning to achieve for your scaling. There is no way winning a teamfight could pull you that much farther ahead of the enemy team scaling wise than what would normally be given if your entire team is wiped anyways. But hey, it could be balanced even more by reducing experience gain across the board so getting your quests scaled is less stompy but more beneficial to the individual player and therefore will make them more noticeable in team fights. Like it or not individual skill is what people want. it’s why Heroes never took off. It doesn’t have to be shown in the same way league does theirs. The questing way is the perfect similar but different way to go about it. If you want the game to survive and pull in more players this change needs to happen or it will continue to lose playerbase little by little without drawing in any new players until it dies completely. Hasn’t happened yet but it’s on life support. That plug can be pulled at any time though.
It’s still the 3rd best and the only one I enjoy, so I don’t mind the lack of “me me me, imma god” from this team game
I think no matter what, HotS will never defeat LoL mostly because how late it was in the moba market, but it can keep the Blizz fans and teamplayers to itself over LoL.
So instead of chasing an unfulfillable dream, it should stick to its own unique charm.
And I see a lot of new players (when I play vsAI) in the game, so it’s not like it’s actually dying.
4 Likes
There’s barely any new players. A lot of people making new accounts though. Look, the game actually isn’t even in 3rd place. I’d say if it isn’t keeping up with dota numbers, which Dota is basically double heroes numbers, then it’s a complete failure. I don’t want it to be the next league but it needs to at least catch up to Dota. This change will help people who were on the fence finally make the leap. A lot of people have been leaving the game because it just is becoming frustrating to them do to the fact that most games feel like the victory is out of your hands, that it’s just a flip of the coin. I’m sure you know this I know you aren’t that dense. It’s a common problem for everyone. It’s a problem that must be fixed or more players will leave. If you’re worried that the game will become too skill based I wouldn’t. The game will retain its casual charm but it will allow for a more hardcore experience for the higher level players.