I meant specifically the HP itself , not sources of HP. Things like dehaka tissue regeneration would be unchanged, stiches’s globe quest or alex’s mark.
Those would provide the same value as they currently do.
Yup ,
I always wanted to see and imagine what this game could be with friendly fire. Even if it would had been for just a temporary brawl.
You’re right.
I think often i pick a topic and do big developpment on the topic wether the idea being good or bad but beside the last one ( which was just a joke post ) i just wanted to see what positives or negative we would see as a group.
As he said, % values of damage and healing would be halved, which would take them to equal damage again in most cases. There however will be a few exceptions to this:
Malthael, tychus, greymane and maybe a few others have % of current health and/or tresholds applied to which abilities are generaly deadly. These tresholds can in some cases cause a lot higher damage for longer durations.
For example tychus with TBTA, even if the 4% is reduced to 2% (base value without the talent is reduced from 2.5% to 1.25%), the 35% treshold would most likely remain as it is.
As a result, attacking someone at 100% hp, while having an attack speed boost, allows tychus to exceed his old damage value as previously as soon as the target went below 35%, TBTA was counter productive.
With 4 aps at 4% previously, each second was worth 16%, since you can only destroy 65% of HP, its an effective: 4.0625 seconds in which you can deal damage. Sure, you have 3 seconds worth by default, but a 33% attack speed boost (morales grants 75%) is very quickly going to be negated.
With double the HP, tychus can fully use that boost since instead of taking out 65% by default, it now was just 32.5%. And gives plenty of room for double attack speeds.
But for things like that, this is a finetuning part and generaly not a major issue.
There is however a secondary issue that would require a rebalance then: garrosh
He gets his 25 armor at half health lost, but this makes the bottom portion of his health bar get an even bigger boost in effective health. As the tresholds which people use for escaping remain the same in most cases. So he can effectively end up with triple health.
But its an easy fix: garrosh gets less health
I think double HP is an extra value.150% of present HP is nice in my idea.anyway this idea for increaseing amount of maximum health is fine cause to forbidden of death a Hero in 1 second.
this game doesnt need more HP.
This game needs CC mitigation.
Like anti-CC talents, which reduce time you can be CC’ed by some %, can give you armor, etc.
There should also be a system that each subsequent CC you get its duration cut by 50% and so…
Not this, Double HP could be okay (huge nerf to burst DPS like Zera, huge buff to sustain dps or %dps characters). But Double Mana means that all mana management goes out the window.
There are loads of heroes who rely on being able to put there enemy to near death if not dead in a veyr short amount of time
Even if Zeratul is on that list I still think it’s a bit too large a list for this to be thebest idea out there, at least outside of maybe a new brawl to try it out.
THough this does sound like something worth trying in brawl to see jut which heroes would need changes the most.
Doubling HP, keeping most damage and healing the same and NERFING % based damage and heals would just artificially inflate game length and overall time to kill. This would just encourage a much longer laning phase and make the game feel pretty sluggish and boring for the first 10-20 minutes. Fights would also basically never end with deaths except for the absolute squishiest heroes, throwing general game design and balance out of wack.
The longer laning phases and gamelengths of other Mobas also come with the fact that there is payoff in the way heroes and abilities scale, especially since a single player’s hero/champ can scale so hard that can sometimes 1v2, 1v3, maybe even 1v4. HOTS is built around shorter games and teamwork with less late game scaling so that people can’t just quickly 1v5 and blow up the entire enemy team solo.
basically, it’s a fun thought experiment. In practice however, HOTS would kinda suck with these changes.
Remember when they globally buffed movement speed? If the buff is small enough, most won’t be too impacted by it. So maybe something like 25% or below would allow you to shift the meta slightly away from Burst, without upsetting half of the playerbase. High level players would initially be significantly impacted, as they know instinctively at what health percentages they can secure a kill on each hero or how much damage they can survive.
I would like to see the shift you’re suggesting, towards more sustain and less burst.
Interesting thought but i do think it would make the game boring. History can prove that to be true:
Healers were blanket nerfed to dissolve the double support meta. Struggling to kill someone lead to uninteresting fights
Armour was changed so that it no longer stacked. Whilst armour stacking required good skill and coordination, the end result meant that heroes were hard to kill. The pro scene was boring to watch when no one died.
I think survivability is in a good place right now. The only reason I’d support a blanket HP buff would be if the game changed to 6v6.
a lot of %hp damage sources tend to come from sustained forms of damage.
If all hp is doubled, than the usual combos that would otherwise kill a hero don’t kill the hero; that gives more time for healers/sustain to compensate for the burst and more time for steady damage to overtake the burst.
On a lvl 20 test dummy, a cone-built jaina (without icy veins or ring) could do ~3857 damage to each target hit. She has 2994 hp, and could die to that combo. With double hp, she then survives. Since the combo relies on a 15 sec cd (blizzard) it could be said that the dps of that combo is then 257 (per target) Alternatively, a lance-built jaina (without icy and wintermute) I could get to hold 605 dps, but that’s hitting two heroes. Lance is sustained damage and will eventually deal more than her burst combo, but there are similar breakpoints between those styles.
A lvl 20 valla attacking a target dummy with manticore (bloated hp figures) can get 800 dps on that target even without Rancor. (the lvl 20 ias talent) and she doesn’t need to really spend any resources or wait on cooldowns to deal that damage.
So heroes that have a similar damage threshold (reducing %hp sources) still provide a stable damage increase, but they have more time to outweigh burst damage.
Now that isn’t necessarily the ‘reality’ that could hold from your suggested scenario; with more hp, but similar dps/hps, then that could suggest that certain roles aren’t needed, and teams may try to build around other compositions to try to enable the lost relative damage.
If hp sustain is too good, then it may be better for teams to ignore fights and simple try to out push each other instead and we see the return of aba+clone suicide comps and non-juicepirate variations that dont need to build around burst mitigation’ they just go in and try to take more than the other team can.
I can only imagine how hard it would be to kill the tanks, stitches has over 3000 hp at level 1. That is now over 6000 hp with this. What is worse, the thing that hard countered stitches, percentage damage, is completely gutted.
Greymane’s cursed bullet does 20% of a targets current hp instead of 40%. Malthael only does .875% damage and last rights would take an exceptionally small health threshold to be lethal. Leo does 10% while healing for 10%.
The worse would be for Deathwing, while he has just under 6000 at level 1 and already can not be healed by allies, hes z will also be reduced to half at 1.25% per second, he would be stuck in the air for half the match.
That also applies to healing fountains, globes and the hall of storms. They all do percent healing, meaning they also got reduced by this too. So much time taken sitting around to full health. This change just makes the game sound boring.
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