Varian in QM not a tank


#11

he is in the bruiser role.

The roles have changed, but the UI has not been fully changed to reflect that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrC3NN2WsAE-9Xs.jpg:large

this is why when there are not enough warriors/healers… You see bonus EXP for ETC, but not for Varian. And for Li Li, but not Tassadar.


#12

When I do see QM Varians pick up Twin Blades and someone goes, “aww shucks, tank went twin blades. Rip” I always say we can try to make it work.


#13

I’d prefer a well played Twin Blades over a mediocre Taunt.

Either way, Varian WAS considered a bruiser but the undid the changes after they undid the comp enforcements.


#14

This is not true. Varian is considered a Tank in the QM matchmaker right now. He was classified as a Bruiser but that change was undone when they walked back the composition changes.


#15

Twin Blades is an awesome build if you can get a lead. It can also be as useless as an unfed Butcher if you get behind.

I’m currently learning Varian and he is pretty decent as a main tank with his taunt build. A little vulnerable to stuns.

Arms build is still a mystery to me.


#16

incorrect.

Please inform me where in this statement (or post) it states that Varian is treated as a tank now. Instead of a bruiser.

The post even clearly states Tank, Healer, Ranged Assassin hence the roles are working as intended.

If you have Blizzard stating otherwise please provide a cite.


#17

Varian used to be classified as either bruiser or tank. In both cases forum got flooded with whine.


#18

Varian used to be assassin and guess what? He murdered all assassins composition 10/10 the moment the competent Varian player switched to Taunt.

What is the definition of real tank anyways? I mean, even Anubarak is “tank” knowing that he has low HP among other tanks.


#19

I’ve always seen Anub as an anti caster tank thanks to his beefy spell armor, massive disruption abilities and escapes/engages. Much like Johanna feels like the anti auto attack tank.


#20

No, it isn’t. Queue as Varian and you will be matched against a tank every single time.

Just because Blizzard didn’t explicitly state they reversed Varian’s role again doesn’t mean they didn’t.

Expanding at 30 seconds instead of 300 seconds is a thing now, but you can’t even argue that it doesn’t do this because you can empirically observe it at the 30 second mark.

Varian, as of December 30th 2018 (today) will be matched against tanks.


#21

Varian has been matched against tanks since quite a while already.

They changed it multiple times already and none was/will be perfect.


#22

No, not quite. When Blizzard updated the composition rules Varian was placed in the Bruiser category. On December 21st when the composition rules were reversed they reverted Varian back to being a tank in the Matchmaker rule set, but did not update him in the UI.

This is why PlanarChaos is going to argue he isn’t a tank in the rule set, but he very clearly is when you queue with him. It was an undocumented change, just like the expansion happening 10 times faster was.


#23

Could you please provide your cite that Varian is not classified as a bruiser internally?

No. You cannot. He is classified as a bruiser, not a tank.

Like every other bruiser in the game, in an expanded search to create games more quickly and keeping quality high, bruisers will be used in lieu of tanks.

I don’t see what is difficult here.

Varian is factually not considered a tank by the rules.
He is considered a bruiser and hence ends up in matches acting as a tank with relaxed rules.

While he may be essentially be a tank currently, he is in fact considered a bruiser.

here is a screenshot i took a few minutes before posting this. Notice Varian does not get the bonus exp. Hence being considered a role which is not a tank

https://i.imgur.com/qposM04.jpg

this line and everything after was edited in after post was made

Clearly you don’t understand how “relaxing” of rules worked.

By your logic every warrior should be considered a tank. Yet, I bet if you queue as Zarya you won’t be put as the “warrior/tank” of the game, unless you have a very long queue. I kinda wanta play 20-30 QMs as Zarya just to prove the point now, tbh. That not all warriors are tanks even with the relaxed rules.

The relaxing clearly kept the new roles, but was willing to put bruisers up against tanks if the matchmaker favored it would result in a good game.

You remind me of the people who think that “expanded search” is purely one ruleset. When in fact how the rules are relaxed changes over time. And I have that right from people on the HotS team.

I won’t share proof of that of course, without permission. But if you have a scenario where you have:
a viable tank for one team (say, ETC), and a viable support for both teams, a viable ranged assassin for both teams and two other people for each team…
If the matchmaker, say, the option of Diablo or Varian with equal MMR, the Matchmaker would always pick diablo.

As Diablo is considered a tank, while Varian is considered a bruiser, who can be matched up against tanks given the “who wins” is very close to 50%.


#24

No, he is a tank again.

Go queue with him and you will quickly find out this is true.

He is always matched against a tank. I don’t care that he doesn’t get the Call of the Nexus bonus, when the matchmaker creates teams he is always matched against a tank even when there are no other tanks on your team. This does not happen with Sonya, Leoric, or other bruisers.

You can argue against it all you want, but it will not change reality.


#25

Cite?
Read (and respond?) to edits to previous post please.

Because I’m willing to agree that “warrior” essentially (it should exclude Zarya) means tank with the revision to the rules at the time of editing (a day or so before start of 2019).

But the fact that Varian is classified as a bruiser not a tank in the role system is an area where at the time of this post I am 100% correct on.


#26

No, you posted a screenshot of the Call of the Nexus when I’ve stated repeatedly the change is irrespective of the UI classification. In the UI, no, he isn’t in the tank category. However, internally in the QM rule set he is treated as a tank.


#27

Zarya?
/20characters


#28

Zarya is sustain and is still treated as sustain… I’m talking about Varian, not Zarya.

Unless actual tanks like Johanna, Muradin, or Stitches aren’t tanks anymore (they are) Varian will be matched against them without any other tank on your own team.

Varian is internally being treated as a tank by the QM matchmaker, regardless of the fact he doesn’t get a Call of the Nexus bonus for it.


#29

actually, looking at some of your recent posts that talked about queue times, it seems you Are (or were) someone who assumes “expanded search” at 30 seconds is the same as “expanded search” at 300 seconds.

I think that the HotS team should be more clear, about how exactly the queue was expanded, but to quote someone on the team
“…Feedback that it could be more transparant is not unwelcome (however that transparancy may have effects itself on behavior)…”


#30

Varian in QM does not get credit for being played AS a tank even when I go play a tank Varian. For the sake of argument, why would someone in QM play a tank if they’re not getting the XP boost that “real tanks” get even if Varian is a perfectly viable tank?