Valla has only two viable talents at 1st

General Discussion
1

“We would also like to see a bit more auto-attack focused builds so we are going to start slowly increasing the strength of some of those Talents, starting with Creed of the Hunter.”

If you’re wondering why people don’t want to go Auto-Attack builds on one of the lowest HP and shortest range “ranged assassins” in the game, maybe start by looking at “Every death reduces this bonus by 5%.” Gee, I wonder if this is related?

While I like the idea of giving Valla some attack speed/power earlier, how on Earth was this supposed to be an improvement over Hot Pursuit or the old Creed of the Hunter? Here’s my suggestion.

Creed of the Hunter
Valla gains +10% attack speed.
Quest: Each time Valla gets 50 hits against enemies (minions or heroes), she gets +1% Hatred attack damage, attack speed, and move speed bonus up to +5%.
Quest: When Valla gets 250 hits against enemy heroes, she gets an additional 10% attack speed and 10% move speed.

2

It is actually a good talent and if you’re skilled enough it’s probably the strongest build with the most damage, but Q-build is probably more popular, because it’s way easier and acrobatic is just too good with her 4th talent. But her weakest talent at 1 is W after the nerfs and it’s fine, because it’s also the easiest.

3

Aa build is currently the best as long you keep your hatred up or build it up just before a fight. Also dont die

One tip is to not kill minions or walls but keep them for your stack and attack it before it runs out

W build is the highest in numbers damage
But the worst because you cant kill that well as AA or Q build

Q build is the lowest in dmg but highest in burst. The great thing is that you still can go manticore and the lvl 20 acrobat deleted an enemy from the map.
It also deleted the core but no dev bats an eye about acrobat

6 Likes
4

I don’t understand why so many people hate Creed of the Hunter? Its functionality is still basically the same as before only now your damage bonus can scale up to 6% and you get the damage bonus every 50 AAs instead of having to AA 100 times to get 2% damage bonus.

Sure you lose attack speed when you die but you shouldn’t be dying that often that your attack speed get reduced below what the previous iteration of that talent give you. And even if you die, I feel like that’s okay as long as you don’t die too much too early in the quest progression.

4 Likes
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Appreciate the feedback, but the problem is, if you’re not dying on Valla then the other players are asleep, if they are letting you get away with auto attacking. She’s within range of I THINK literally every ranged character. There are very few melee heroes that can’t close with her, and there’s just so much CC to shut her down.

I mean, seriously, how many people responding main on Valla? I’m curious, because you actually prefer a 25% attack speed bonus that can be wiped out against any competent CC/DPS, meaning every death leaves you that much weaker in the end game, rather than having move speed and mana regen (1st) + 20% attack speed bonus (4th with max Hatred) + 30% attack speed (20 with max Hatred) that cannot be taken away? She had 50% bonus attack speed at max Hatred, and there are Valla players who actually think 25% max that gets worse with each death is better for end game? Assuming you die just twice, that’s 15% attack speed bonus vs 50% attack speed bonus.

What?

Valla is still one of the lowest HP ranged assassins in the game.
Valla is still one of the shortest range ranged assassins in the game.

So there are Valla mains that like giving up top end Hatred attack speed and damage for half as much attack speed, assuming the enemy team is catatonic and has no CC and/or your team has cleanse and heals to keep Valla alive when she is CC’d or focused (which she will be if she goes AA build)?

And, remember, in order to make this ridiculous AA build work, Valla has to use her only escape (Vault) to dive, which is suicide against even an incompetent enemy team… which, in turn, means that the only time it would be safe for her to do this is when her DPS is already unnecessary for the fight.

I don’t understand how this is preferable. She doesn’t have the range to engage from safety, and she doesn’t have the HP or sustain to dive in without dying against a team made up of people who have eyes and not having a stroke at least once or twice, and she has to use her escape ability to make the dive work in the first place.

Again… What?

1 Like
6

She gets so much power for free at level 20 in farflight quiver (aa) and the three charges on e (q build). Nerf. At least ZJ has to work for his power and not just last to level 20. Nazeebo too must work for his power unlike valla as he needs 175 stacks, not just level 20

Zuljin might be busted (outranges towers) if he got it but any marksmen (we don’t have many in hots) would kill for farflight quiver

1 Like
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I played AA once or twice. I hardly see it played. I find W the most reliable, unless I can go mage with Q.

I don’t remember specifics of the previous build, but the way I see it now, the level 1 talent gives something instantly that you’ll lose, however if you use it properly, it turns into something else. Whereas the previous iteration of the level 4 has given nothing until you completed your 100 hero hits.

The actual problem with this talent is that it suffers from Abathuritis - if you get babysat, you won’t die and you become an absolute monster - having good old Rancor AND the level 4 by level 4. Whether it’s Aba or a pocket healer is of no consequence. In this sense it is quite an egospec. Protect me and I shall carry - or we fail.

8

It does take some practice and good game sense to not get insta nuked but its not impossible. Valla has a lot of mobility and most of your survivability hinges on skillful dodging.

If my credentials are really necessary then here.

https://www.heroesprofile.com/Profile/?blizz_id=816048&battletag=waterlong&region=1

She’s not exactly my main but I do preform fairly well on her and I like to take AA build alot.

The attack speed is great and holding on to it is important but dont forget that this talent also gives you up to 60% attack damage for a total of a whopping 140% more attack damage. Combined with death dealer at 4, your gonna deal a lot of damage on a 5 second cooldown. With good stacks, you could be hitting for over 1000 damage with your AAs.

I’m sure you’ve seen games where a tracer or a zeratul is just completely untouchable. Valla works the same way.

If you get a takedown with the auto attack after the vault, the cooldown resets. Usually you want to just skirt around fights, taking shots when you can. When someone gets low, that’s when you vault in and start playing like a liming would.

5 Likes
9

Imagine having a competent Morales on your side! I often play valla - morales with my brother who is valla main, he almost goes aa build every time and hes got an extremely aggressive playstyle with high damage/kill output. But yes it is much easier as duo, when you can rely on well timed shields/healing of your well known partner :wink:

3 Likes
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I prefer [T3122232,Valla]

11

True, but remember those % numbers can get a bit wonky, as her base trait already adds (up to) 80% damage by default. For a Valla keeping their hatred up, 180% is basically 100% of her normal damage. So that 60% damage from the talent (when you get full stacks) doesn’t actually make you deal 60% more damage, but more like 33% (at full hatred).

Normal Valla:
0 hatred = 70 dmg x 1.67 speed = 116.9 dps.
10 Hatred = 70 x 180% x 1.67 speed = 210.42 dps.

With the talent, full gambit, 0 hits:
0 hatred = 70 dmg x 1.67 x 1,25 = 146.125 dps (25% more)
10 Hatred = 70 dmg x 180% x 1.67 x 1.25 = 263.025 dps. (25% more)

With talent, full gambit, full hits:
0 Hatred: 70 x 1.67 x 1,25 = 146.125 dps. (25% more)
10 Hatred: 70 x 240% x 1,67 x 1,25 = 350.7 dps. (67% more)

With talent, 0 gambit, full hits:
0 Hatred: 70 x 1.67 = 116.9 dps. (0% more)
10 Hatred = 70 x 240% x 1.67 = 280.56 dps. (33% more)

It’s a good talent when you can maintain the gambit stacks, but without those you ‘only’ deal +33% dmg even at maximum stacks & hatred.

1 Like
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Well. I just got complimented after a massive snowball loss on Valla against Rehgar (thus it doesn’t count in my head), that I was alive 97% while similar players averaged 85%. I think that’s the lowest number I’ve ever seen. Whether she’s a regular feeder early on (yes) or a failure at the endgame despite Farflight (yes) doesn’t matter. She’s basically a grenade, she normally dies every teamfight, but you try to trade - unless very passive.

As far as today’s matches go she is about Tier C for me. Conditionally good, great even, but easily outclassed. Regardless of build actually. Had one awesome match with AA (against Cho’Gall), one spectacular performance with Q build, two fails with W and one with Q and AA each.

To make her top damage in my matches, she would need about a flat 40% damage buff. (Don’t.) But I’d rather make her a little more survivable. I think a wee bit of her AA leech could be useful as baseline. It’s a talent I must take anyway. (Every hero must have increased regen / leech from the get go in a setting where healers aren’t guaranteed / to heal. Being so squishy Valla is not optimal to heal, she’ll die anyway. Especially by Ana.

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33% more damage is roughly being 7 levels up while 67% is 13 levels up. Since AA is Valla’s main damage source that kind of boost shows a lot in her stats.

It’s especially great in the early game for a race to lvl 10, where the first team who gets it has on average 67% win rate.

4 Likes
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I beleive creed is the most picked Valla talent in pro play.

15

but pros can micro her
The argument I’m reading between the lines here is she’s just a worse Tychus because standing next to someone and clicking them means they can just hit you back.
In which case that is correct. Valla needs to stack and remain a (dis)respectful distance away to be a threat, and she normally does, and she’s normally a very big threat.
If you want to dash in, click someone and watch them die then Tychus is the bet.

4 Likes
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I think it’s more that her tanks actually peel for her. In QM, going AA is too dangerous because you probably have no frontline, and you have 5dps do deal with, with nothing you can safely AA.

5 Likes
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Lot’s of great discussion. Thanks.

I want to remind people that Valla’s AA build used to be about managing Hatred for fun and profit, which was tricky, but entirely possible and engaging. She was not too strong (Q and W builds were STILL better). Instead of buffing her AA talents as they were, Blizz created an entirely new “Gambit” mechanic for an already fragile early game character.

Yes, Valla can do very good damage, even early game with the current Creed, but she has to be babysat, by who? A pocket healer? So Valla is a two player carry now? No one else sees that designing a DPSer roaming or diving with a pocket healer as ridiculous? She’s supposed to be treated like a bruiser without the HP of a bruiser.

As far as her performance in Storm League, according to HOTSlog, Creed is only at 48.3% in the last 4 weeks, because people have remembered Valla can be nuked. W and Q builds still far outperform AA builds. Oh, and remember, 3 deaths and you’re right back where you were with the old Creed of the Hunter (4th +10% attack speed). 4 deaths, and your worse off than you were pre last patch…

And I agree with Tooton, Farflight Quiver is broken. I mean, Valla’s range was her weakness, and Farflight Quiver helped fix it pre patch, but the current range buff with max Hatred is gratuitous. I think it carries for the current form of Creed, because, as I’ve said, unless your opponents are practically catatonic, Valla’s going to have collected more than two or three deaths by level 20.

By that point, FFQ is necessary, because she has to be played like a sniper, rather than a diver.

1 Like
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Use heroes profile. Its more up to date and better maintained sense it pulls all its data directly from user uploaded replays.

1 Like
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This extremely tone deafed on the way you interp AA Valla, just because vault is used to deal damage doesn’t imply she’s risking suicide for it.

The risk high, the reward is also high, dealing 2.5x has a lot of spike of power and a finishing touch.

People should stop looking at mobility movement as a defensive utility and looked into as a both aggressive and defensive.

2 Likes
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Don’t use this site for references. As far as I know does Hotslog not any longer support uploads of Replay files and the current state of this site is in maintenance.
Heroes profile gets more information through replay files but can’t look at the game metrics either as long as Blizzard isn’t disclosing it

1 Like