Valeera's combo: The numbers, why cheap shot + ambush need buffs, and how to do it

General Discussion
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From level 1:
Ambush + Sinister Strike + Blade Flurry + Eviscerate: 701 damage
Garrote + Sinister Strike + Blade Flurry + Eviscerate: 681 damage
Cheap Shot + Sinister Strike + Blade Flurry + Eviscerate: 546 damage

So basically, ambush combo does 20 more damage than garrote combo, reduces the target’s armor by 10 which isnt that significant.

Garrote does slightly less damage but completely locks the target out of any sort of escape or defensive ability they may have for the duration, which is generally a lot stronger than -10 armor. It also prevents their ability to fight back with spells. for 2.5 seconds.

Finally, Cheap shot does 135 damage less than Garrote, and 155 less than Ambush with the only compensation being a 0.75 second stun and a blind to prevent them from fighting back as effectively for 2 seconds if they’re an auto hero (but not removing their access to self heal or escape via abilities).

Garrote is almost always the optimal opener. I think it’s clear why. It has by far the best damage:utility ratio of the 3. But it isnt overpowered. I would say the other 2 openers just need some help.

First of all, Ambush should either provide better burst damage to incentive its use over garrote, or better armor reduction to incentive its use on tanks in teamfights or to help your team focus a target. Either would work. But right now its very rarely the optimal opener considering how powerful the 2.5 second silence is in comparison to -10 armor and 20 more damage. For the first option I would say it should be something like 170 damage if we only buff the damage. For the second one, I’d suggest increasing the base armor reduction to 15, or 20 and lower the damage a little.

And my other point is that cheap shot needs a buff. Cheap shot has decent utility, but it deals extrordinarially low damage compared to the other openers. It was balanced around valeera’s old 1.25/1.5 second stun, which made it a lot more powerful. Back then it made sense for it to have such low damage when it let you sit there and hit your opponent for a little over a second, but now that the duration of her stun is lowered a lot, the window you have for free damage is a lot smaller. I think we should either significantly buff the damage of cheap shot (like +150% current damage it at least, the damage is only 30 which is horrendously weak for an ability that now provides much less CC). The alternative is to give Cheap Shot a slightly longer stun (1s) which makes it more appealing as a lockdown ability outside of the specialized team comps the blind is useful against, and buff the damage less but still increase it some. I personally prefer the second, as the 1 second stun would feel a lot more impactful and fits the disabler role better, but I think either could work.

Overall, both ambush and cheap shot need some buffs to feel more viable. They have their place, but it feels like garrote needs to be used more frequently than the other 2 openers put together which is a little depressing.

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This is his 11th thread about Valeera in the last 3 weeks…

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:elf: :woman: :dagger:

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21 days you mean. Which is not unreasonable given each is about a different topic, just the same hero. Please post something productive or not at all, because trying to immediately derail a thread with multiple facts in it and stop actual conversation is poor etiquette.

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Ummm… 21 days is 3 weeks. Not sure what the point of your correction is.

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Because “3 weeks” is trying to make it sound absurd, but in reality it’s less than a topic a day, and many weren’t even about her balance

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21 days doesn’t sound any better sweetie. Periodically bumping your own thread has the same effect as creating a new one, and is less annoying. It keeps the discussion in one place, instead of a baker’s dozen of pages.

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Dude… what?

It sounds bad either way.

Also you do a good job derailing your own threads.

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To be fair Valeera does need buffs. But sadly she’s a stealth hero those dont get to be strong.

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Her stealth abilities do not need buffs, dude.

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Garrote is fine. Cheap shot and ambush are not though for reasons I outlined above. Provide some kind of real argument if youre going to disagree

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No, her stealth abilities are fine, her non-stealth abilities are what need buffs. She has both a point/click stun/blind and silence, and they’re powerful enough as they are.

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Using the smaller measurment with the bigger numbers just make it sound worse…
Also why “correct” something by writing done something equal?
Also if you don’t want your thread to be derailed it’s better to ignore those posts rather than picking a meaningless fight.
But I guess you’re happy that you could “legally” bumb your own thread with it plus you probably enjoy the attention.
Pft, trolls…

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I can’t believe I’m aiding with hailfail here… but no.

Valera does need some of her stealth abilities buffed a tiny bit. Mostly ambush though. Cheap shot should be used just shut down nasty effects and shouldnt do much damage.

But ambush could use some more damage.

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Guys, I have an emergency on my hands; I’m out of mac and cheese!
How do I solve this problem!? I’m too weak to go to the store and buy more, but I can only become strong again if I consume more mac and cheese!

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Ok, yeah, just ambush. The whole point of her stealth openers is to have a bit of a situational advantage over your opponent, that’s it, they don’t need to be EZ win buttons.

Like, cheap shot is naturally effective against aa heroes like Greymane or Raynor because of the blind.

Garrote is effective against mages or mobile heroes because it disables most of their power for a good amount of time.

Ambush is the only ability that seems to struggle to find its’ use, fine buff it, but her other stealth abilities are fine as they are, we don’t need Cheap shot to stun or blind any longer than it already does unless it’s from a talent.

Only other thing needs a buff is the range on SS, but that’s pretty much it, she needs more power outside of her opener.

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you silence raynor. Silence greymane if worgen form.

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This thread is weird…

Is it opposite day?

100%

Her E could use more damage and maybe a buff to blade fury talent.

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I can understand Raynor, but why would you EVER silence Greymane in Worgen form? His aa’s are pretty much 80% of his total damage output. You can silence him, but he’ll still be clipping through chunks of your hp.

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If he’s diving your backline then you blind. If you’re being aggressive, then silence so he cant run away

Typically his burst is so extreme that you cant stun him before he murders whoever

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