Please educate me.
Every time I MM with a tyrande, her heals are so low and she’s classed as a healer.
She only has 1 healing ability and it’s on a 16 second CD.
Her W, E and D to me are ‘support’ abilities and even with shadowstalk ult the heals over time isn’t that great?
How can a tyrande get up there with heals? What is her main role? I always see her as support not a healer.
She’s a high skill cap healer. She needs to constantly AA to reduce Q cooldowns.
Most Tyrandes you will meet will be dead weight because of this. The hero herself is excellent though.
She also has tons of utility besides raw healing, which average players can’t take full advantage of.
(Including armor debuffs, AA aura, cleanses, Owl vision, stuns etc)
One key to Tyrande is finding the right positioning to get AAs off. If you aren’t AAing, your healing isn’t going to be amazing. However, your level 4 talent is where you critical tea fight healing comes from.
Still, mainly she is there for her rangers mark, not outstanding heals. Which is why generally you take the trait talent at 4 so that your best heals come from marking an enemy and watching as your AA hero becomes suddenly really hard to kill as long as they are shooting that target.
I’m not sure about post v 2.50.2, but pre that, she was an easy healer to master, ahead of Uther, Morales and Lucio. That’s from a spreadsheet I’ve made in the past.
She definitely was easier before, and according to HP her pick rate has plummeted by half from 2018 to 2020. She used to be present in ~12-15% of matches. Now it’s 6-7% per patch.
Her older versions also had some very casual (though fun) builds like a full owl build allowing her to snipe people to death from very far away, attracting people to Tyrande who would otherwise not play her.
Tyrande’s healing is going to suffer compared to other characters for a few reasons:
Her baseline healing is 33.75 hps
Reghar’s chainheal is 90 hps, so with little other variation, a reghar might put out 3 times as much healing as a Tyrande.
At level 4, Tyrande has access to Elune’s Chosen, and it heals based on the damage she deals from attacks. For 8 seconds of attacking, she could heal a target for over 1500 damage – which is more than ancestral, rehgar’s heroic.
If tyrande does get attacks, she could lower her main heal to like 6 sec cd, and if she hits skill shots, she can occasionally rapid-fire her heals.
A tyrande that gets attacks can triple her baseline healing (moonlight arrow cdr talent is a thing,) pick elune’s chosen and pretty much double that, and then have a global heal to try to bring bit of aoe/multi target healing to her kit.
So basically, Tyrande’s that take talents that don’t suit how she plays, don’t stutter for getting attacks, (and can’t land skillshots) may heal half of, if not one sixth the healing of other characters.
It’s not surprising to see a game with a tyrande having 50k healing when an opponent has 200k. However, some of that may not be because the tyrande is ‘bad’, but some of that is opportunity cost: if a tyrande lands an owl (shrink ray) + Marksmans’ + stun and the team kills that enemy, that’s less damage her side is taking that she would then need to heal. Since she has several forms of damage mitigation, she also has “unlisted” healing contribution by reducing the damage her team takes.
Tyrande is generally bad at healing through poke damage (enemy team has chromie,hammer,ming and stays away) because she needs to hit something to get cdr, or more so, attack something to deal damage for Elune’s Chosen (or Mark of Mending for self-healing)
So bottom line, she’s still a “healer” but her skill set is pretty much the work matchup for most casual players, so they will usually do significantly worse with her than on other, easier, healers to play.
She used to compensate some of her lower healing with early/easier access to semi-cleanse (clearing debuffs) but since that got shifted further up her talent tree (arguably too late) and she used to have stronger nuke comboes and she used to have stronger buff/debuffs, but her dominance in the game has seen her get nerfed a few times too many, so an already fairly hard hero has an even harder time doing their thing.
You auto attack with her to bring down the heals cooldown. You need to watch out at all times and have people willing to help you out in a bind. Tanks peeling and others.
Her damage is trash so don’t bother complaining about it. I’d even suggest to not even spec to increase it at all. Just focus on being helpful. She is meant to be in the thick of it. Stunning, adding armor debuff, vision with owl, and heals. She is a great hero because of the things she can do.
Don’t ever run around on your own, stick to the tank or a hero that can peel for you.
Allow me to go in to extreme detail on that one : p
I agree that shes more of a support then a healer but her heals are still decent. Its not really a heal every 16 seconds. Its around 5 seconds with constant AAs and good E hits can accelerate that much faster. At level 1 its doing a total of 561 healing which isnt bad on a 5s~ cooldown. For refrence, moralas heal beam is 170 hps while tyrande is around 130 which isnt bad.
Once you hit 4 it starts to get pretty good for a while. Everlasting light is effectively 40% more healing if you play its mini game and by the end of a match, the second heal can easily heal for over 1000. For most games, this is the one you wanna take sense its the safest and most reliable.
Elune’s chosen is a good 190 hps for 8 seconds and you can still use Q during it for some seriously hard core tank healing assuming you’ve paired it up with trueshot. After actuvating trueshot and using your mark that explodes to 240~ hps for 4 seconds which is pretty hard to beat considering you can also spam Q during this. Its not easy to do that with its heavy apm requirement tho.
Moonlit arrows reduces the number of auto attacks needed to reset your Q from 7 to 5 which is nice but isnt a huge boost.
Starfall will contribute to your Qs cooldown reduction and lets you get off a good 3 extra Qs by its self on 4 targets for its duration and even more if your still using your AAs and E. Shadowstalk Isnt the best for its raw healing but against teams that rely on alot of damage over time, it can get some work done.
darnassian archery can technically increase your healing along with some of the other post 10 talents but those are the biggest players for her hps.
Overall her single target healing is pretty insane and id even argue thats its potentially one of the best sustained single target in the game which kinda puts moralas to shame.
So why is her healing often not super high when you see her? Well I think there are 3 main reasons for this.
I said earlier that I think that shes more of a support and thats because of the role she generally plays. Her healing is potentially good but her ability to fallow up CC is among, if not the best in the game. Mark + trueshot + stun is devastating and for a long time was enough to build entire teams around in high stakes tournaments. I honestly feel that shes in the same boat as uther where shes got some insane potential but shes just overlooked for one reason or another but even more so then uther.
I also wanna say that shes just not super good in the QM environment in general. The kinda of coordinated blow up strategies that she thrives in just dont work as well with randoms which means she kinda just turns in to a healer with ok damage, a crappy stun, an entire ability (W) that can go entire games with out getting value of any kind, and needs to be protected at basically all times.
Heres some of the hps she can put out at 10. Im pretty sure theres inefficiencies everywhere but I still came out with over 5K healing in one burst and around 680 hps which is almost as much single target healing as i could get out of whitemane in the same test. I bet Tyrande has the potential to get even higher then wm if I sit here and work out all the kinks.
With another quick test I only get about 3.5K healing with lili’s burst using an E for spellpower fallowed by a Q, W, R, and another Q. Alex probably has a better burst heal but thats not really something i can test on the dummy because of all the % heals.
As others already said she is hard to play, because she needs to attack constantly to reduce the cooldown from her healing.
In other words she is the Medivh of the healer role, if you know how to play her, she is great, otherwise no.
Communicate with your team so they don’t delete minion waves on sight, so you can throw around frequent, strong and mana efficient heals.
Transcendence Kharazim can also work wonders sometimes but the team needs to put a lot more effort in adapting their playstyle to your limitations than when they have a different character supporting them.
Couldn’t have said it better, pls don’t pick up this hero if you are new to healing or only do it rarely. There are so many better choices. And that’s not because Tyrande is bad (any more than Medivh is), but because of how bad she is in average hands.
I’ve been playing her again quite a bit lately here on Asia and find her to be solid assuming you are playing on maps where you fight in lane a lot.
I go Owl with 80% 2nd heal and extra healing cooldown and then healing ult. If you can stutter step well and keep your auto attacks up, you can outheal most healers in the early/mid game and then snowball the late game with her reliable owl burst into stun combo+armor shred.
I had fairly adequate healing numbers with her during the recent match, slightly outdoing the opponent Stukov.
https://www.heroesprofile.com/Match/Single/?replayID=33970248
I’d focus on two things about her.
First, as others noted, she needs to AA. Maybe it’s way too important. CDR talent helps. She needs to be protected enough so that she can do that. By the way, CDR also works on minions, walls, buildings.
Second, adapt to your talents - in my case, I took the Whitemane-esque “two targets, more heals” talent. Since it heals 80% extra, you get a free heal essentially. I didn’t manage to chain them for 100% uptime (if even possible) but with double casting that’s still a 40% increase. I used the first heal on a squishy (myself) and the big heal on the tank.
Combining the two, she’s a bit like Li Li. So, you know you have to be attacking. Scared? Okay, then self-healing is priority number one. It pays dividends. One (big) heal every 5 seconds or two (small) heals every 15? Not a difficult decision.
D is a total fail, though. Nobody reacts, I don’t even notice if I cast it. Also, earlier she had Trueshot Aura, making her preferred in certain comps, but that’s self only.
Don’t just play meta talents. Adapt to your own playstyle, and ignore “bad talent” comments. You better use all of your 90% potential than have it all but only use 70% of it.
Educate yourself first. If you can’t even be bothered to check out Tyrande’s kit yourself (or are too blinded by your initial dislike to not read her full kit and effects), why should we bother to pretend you’ll even read this?
She has been weak for ages now. If you can non-stop damage for CDR she can heal almost as much as the mediocre healers but nowhere near the top healers. Not enough damage nor utility to make up for that. If you play at GM or high master you never see her played because she gets punished if she tries to keep attacking to degree she isn’t dead weight. I think she was played only 3 games in CCL losing them all bad. Her numbers kept getting nerfed and final stroke that killed her was moving cleanse to 16. After that they’ve only kept buffing the trash talents that are still trash even after all the buffs they’ve gotten, nowhere near as good as the nerfed talents.
Like Planar or someone said in a Tyrande topic her trait is weird in pvp anyway, because it was originally built for prolonged fights.
Those barely ever happen nowadays in hots when burst damage is so high. Usually you put her trait on a target and they die super fast. There is no value from talents like Mark of Mending if you put it on a hero.
Yeah that’s false XD. She’s always been sitting in top3 (by winrate) in master mmr SL games. Situational - yes, weak - nah. She’s not uther, who has always been godlike-level when ppl called him trash, but she’s not that far behind him.
Thanks for the replies… maybe been teaming up with new Tyrandes
EdUcAtE YoUrSeLf FiRst… hahahaha bro, people come to the forums to learn, praise, give positive or negative feedback.
You are very passive aggressive with nearly all your replies. I don’t know who hurt you, but you need to get off your high horse.
I wish sustained damage had its place. Marksmen should outdamage all other classes over a teamfight (8 seconds) while mages should get more upfront damage (0-2 seconds). In hots marksmen (there are rarely true marksmen in the first place) aren’t as distinguished or powerful. Mages and marksmen are lumped into the same category: ranged assassin
My feeling is Tyrande’s high skill requirement is why many miss “assassin” Tyrande who had the gimmick infinite crazy owl lady who just had to aim at merc camps on the other side of the map and early stack on heroes close in lane so she could one shot squishes later from across the map.
Not to mention she was a pseudo assassin with a decent self heal and a good duelist, all of this took far less skill then her current full healer role.