Tyrande : finding the proper middle ground

General Discussion
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Tyrande has been a particular case after her rework.

whenever a character got a rework , the general opinion was usually pretty quick on whether it was a good rework or not. In this case, Tyrande caused quite a big divide because after her rework , we had nearly the same number of people completely giving up on playing Tyrande ever again , meanwhile having almost an exact number picking her up as a new main. ( at least from the people on the forum ) . ( this data is supported by my survey i made a while ago called “mains of the storm” in which everyone mentioned their mains and other information , in which i would then compile everything. )

there are many elements from different versions ( V1. - V.4 ) that many people loved but also other aspect that people hated . for fun i want to make a rework suggestion that could en globe all that .

so here is my big question to everyone who played the different versions of Tyrande :
what are the different aspect that Tyrande has/had that you loved and gave her that unique feel whether it being game play wise, skills, talents, new/old skill functionality… ?

for me , these are the things that i liked and found unique about the pre-rework Tyrande.

starting quests : getting stronger
all 3 of her starting quests were all about the feeling and the potential of growing stronger and what was truly interesting was that all that power was never instantly provided to the player, but rather the player had to work and achieve that slow and gradual power spike.

its no surprise that many Tyrande player only picked the owl build , there is no getting around the fact that blindingly sniping a random target from far away was always fun but way too unreliable for me, i was more of a flare and mark player.

still, for the flare build the feeling was perfect.
at the start of the game, flare maybe only did 200-300 at most, but at the end game if you stacked properly , you could easily drop a 1K flare on someone , and that power came from you and you alone, not some power spike. all that power creep came from you by you’re achievements and that feeling was amazing !

Tyrande was one of the most rewarding characters when played right !

speed:
after lvl 10 and 13, she had a nice feel about speed, because she was able to out run many characters with Shadowstalk (20%) and Quickening blessing ( 25% but 20% now) .

DPS first/healing second :
that kinda self explanatory , i wouldn’t see her as a reliable healer in general situation, but she would pair really well with a secondary healer .

im sure i could think of more, but i would like to hear form everyone here.

what are or were the things that made Tyrande a character you enjoyed playing ?

5 Likes
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I miss owl snipe and flare snipe tyrande. I don’t like her as a healer and prefer her assassin/utility hybrid version. One of my fondest memories of her is killing a Chogall clearing a lane from the other side of cursed hallow with an owl.

I liked when her trait was 25 dmg instead of 15, when her shadow stalk gave everyone true stealth, and when her movement speed and attack speed increased from breaking that stealth.

She should be less abt healing and more abt dealing pin point sniping dmg, auto attacks, and amplifying the dmg of team mates with some utility mixed in

3 Likes
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I hate ranger because thats just a bad impractical talent. 30s cd requires me to wait for the perfect shot and it doesnt fit with the lvl 13 and 16 because they react on first impact

I like that she needs to autoattack to reduce cooldowns and the mechanic of the 2 charges
Hunters mark and the lunar flare are great
I also like scouting with her owl

But her ults dont feel too great. They are useful but I dont think yay its lvl 10

4 Likes
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That 25% armor reduction to 15% felt completely unnecessary. That factor among others pushed her into a niche hero rather than a universal first round pick.

It’s already quite hard to get value out of, it requires teammates to follow up on the Hunters mark.
Maybe they felt it was too good against objectives like Immortal? What if it only affected players but had full 25%?

1 Like
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  1. Being a actual hybrid where you could spec for damage, heal or utility
  2. Having an actual E build with more than just one measly, endlessly nerfed talent
  3. Sniping low hp backline retreaters with Owls. I did rarely ever bother to pick the quest … but having to activate pierce and gain damage against the first target only is just silly. That nonsensical activation part also lowered her debuff potential.
  4. Pre-rework Shadowstalk. The new version is just lame.
  5. Pre-rework Elune´s Chosen was also more fun due to higher damage and conversion value.
  6. Pre-rework Celestial Attunement could turn chain CC into endless healing. That was fun.
  7. Pre-rework spell armor also felt really nice.

Concluding: All that is not post-rework Trashrande.

1 Like
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I miss old owl build and wish theyd bring it back. That being said i think she’s fine right now and dont have too many complaints. Thats my thing with most reworks. They bring alot of good things to the table even when getting rid of some fun older mechanics. Lets be honest about it though old tyrande was like xul before rework. Owl snipes were fun but far too niche to really give her a place in the game.

3 Likes
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I didn’t like her then, I dont like her now. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Because she is difficult or mechanical?

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Just don’t like the playstyle. Never really found her fun or interesting compared to other healers. She just doesn’t do it for me.

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I wish tyrande owl was back it probably serve as a hardcounter for deathwing :stuck_out_tongue:

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Please no , that poor dragon is already counted by half the characters in the game. , he doesnt need to be slaughtered by a bird on top of all that lol

4 Likes
12

Fair enough. I have the same about moralis

2 Likes
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And no one who played against tyrande misses it at all.

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morales is one of my favorite healers @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@me

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15

I used to like Tyrande before her most recent rework and now I love her even more. :slight_smile:

First of all OWL WILL NEVER COME BACK. It was only fun in QM, otherwise it was total trash. Everyone semi competent knew how to dodge it and it did pathetic dmg from close range, so it was trash in teamfights.

She still is. :slight_smile: The problem is it is very hard to make her shine in QM chaos.

The problem is her 2017 rework which brought those three lvl 1 quests was done in time when devs were obsessed with quests and every new or reworked hero had to have multiple quests. It is obvious now that it caused many problems, because some quests were mandatory (old Ana or Junk) others were or still are total trash (D.Va and her Crash Course).

Why? Even in Warcraft 3 she has no snipe dmg.

She is all about auto attacks.

Are you sure you are talking about Tyrande? Because, currently she has by far the most utility from all healers.

If you want to make Ranger better, you have to change Lunar Blaze. Currently, you pick it mostly for the bonus range which is always good, unlike situational Ranger. Maybe, make bonus range only a reward for hitting 10 heroes…

You use her trait to secure kills. When you play with competent teammates even 15% armor reduction is sufficient to secure kills.

The problem is all he trait talents look like they were designed for some poking ability, not for securing kills. They are all designed around you cast the trait and then ally AA heroes and you will poke the targeted hero by your AAs. However, in a teamfight you want from the targeted hero to be killed as quickly as possible, you will never get full value from her trait nor her current trait build.

If you want to give her E build you have to redesign Lunar Blaze. You have to make it not the best choice in pretty much every single situation.

It was lvl 16 talent, now it is lvl 1.

It is not just Tyrande. Every time devs did huge change to this game, it divided player base. Stealth rework, ammo removal, nexus anomalies… Every single hero rework divided the playerbase. When Sylvanas was reworked plenty of players stopped playing her, because her old and quite popular playstyle expecially in lower ranks (AFK pushing) was completely killed. Whitemane rework is even better example. I can guarantee you that when D.Va ans Tass reworks are be finally released they will divide the playebase.

5 Likes
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Long range owl snipes, well lead/predicted lunar flares, trueshot aura. There seems to be a bit of Archer theme with tyrande In hots and I think they should hone in on that harder.

Yeah to proc her healing. I want her auto attacks to be more about single target damage and not locked to the later talents.

Yeah but little damage. I want a dmg dealer with utility at the same time

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She is not the only archer in the game. You have Hanzo and Sylvanas, both with long range abilities.

Darnassian Archery + Shooting Star (the safer choice and it allows you to double stun enemies)
or
Darnassian Archery + Iceblade Arrows

Finished Lunar Blaze quest + Empower

She is a healer, if you want dmg dealer with uitily, there is 40+ assassins you can chose from. Additionally, heroes with high dmg and strong utility at the same time are likely to be broken in coordinated play (looking at you Medivh!).

2 Likes
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lol what, she was top healer even with that armor nerf because her kit was overloaded with utility, she’s not niche at all.

2 Likes
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The problem is utility is not represented in stat screen at all. People often look at healers as heal bots, because healing is the only healers’ stat represented in the stat screen.

4 Likes
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I know no one wants to hear this, but this is a HORRIBLE idea. “True” Hybrid characters wreck QM matchmaking. This is the problem that everyone has always had with Varian. If the game matches you as a Tank, and then you go DPS, then one team has a tank and the other team doesn’t, and it is “Blizzard’s Fault” for not putting a tank on each team.

The same would happen with Tyrande. If you could play her as a pure DPS hero, but MM paired her against another healer to balance the teams, then your team doesn’t have a healer, which makes for a bad game for your team.

If you want to play as DPS, then play a DPS Hero, don’t play as a Healer and then try to make her a DPS.

3 Likes