I’m just basing this on my experience as I am a solo player myself.
In ranked, I have somewhat have no problems playing a pretty decent game as a solo player (I am yoyo’ing between gold 1 and plat 5).
But as a solo QM player, that’s where the crap fest begins. I wish I can play more ranked, but I am in Australia and queuing up is the longest waiting game for us, that’s why I turn to QM.
It will be also good to see where the solo player complaints usually play, in SL or QM?
As I myself have a huge gripe with QM stacks and I am fine with stacks in SL cause usually solo players in SL DO teamwork and they DO listen
I kind of want to get API access to their site to see if I can find the data you seek. That thread is also quite old, so there may be significantly more data collected now.
The only thing I want to know
1 - Are the complainers play majority in QM or SL?
2 - What are the WL % stats when any stacks vs a group of solo players in QM
The reason why I want QM stats is because in SL, you can pick counters, players are more attentive due to risking points… it is ranked after all, a solo player wouldn’;t be so ‘casual’ like in QM.
Assumption: A stack will be more attentive in QM because they are playing with friends, can pick heroes that complement each other while solo players paired with a bunch of strangers and random heroes are at a ‘disadvantage’ and I guess that’s one of the arguments solo players present.
Its actual insanity to me how often people claim that the 1% chance of 5 stacks vs 5 solos and that the 5 stack was all try hards and smurfs and they happened to be on the 5 solos side. That this happens to them all the time. Its just hard to take people seriously when they say these that the planets aligned in the name of their own destruction ad nauseam.
I just feel like its some hardcore negativity bias. Mini rant over. (for now)
Problem is, developer access is what I’d need to the API to figure that out and that’s $25 a month. It’s not really worth throwing that money away just to ask one question lol.
I’m just rolling with the data already collected. This whole thread is basically just a response to someone else’s but I didn’t want to derail it so I made my own.
If I had just a large dump of all of the data on the site, for sure I could probably whip up something in Java to parse it in an hour or two, but I don’t want to pay for that data myself ROFL.
Hey, so I found the database that HeroesProfile uses and I might be able to just download a large dump of data for free which I can then just set up a SQL database on my own machine and run my own queries for free.
Now I’m interested in doing all kinds of statistical analysis. I’m super bored right now and I’m almost done germinating / planting 44 species of peppers in my back yard so I’ll have the time because I set up an automatic irrigation system. You didn’t need to know that, but right now Gardening is eating up 80% of my day because I’m trying to set up 50 mature plants. Why am I gardening? Who the hell knows… It’s my FOTM activity because the pandemic has made me stir crazy.
Anyway, if I can get that data, I will see if I can work on all sorts of analysis. I’m really curious to know what I can actually do with my degree. PLUS, it’s something to put on my resume! (Not even a joke, right now since I’m a new graduate employers care more about my personal projects)
I won’t be able to get data like MMR, because I’d have to calculate that all on my own and that would take FOREVER, but I could certainly do things like calculate overall winrates.
EDIT: Yeah, I’m definitely doing this. I never took databases so this will be a true learning experience. I’m currently downloading all of the replays going back to 2017 and I’m going to set up my own SQL database. This costs me nothing but time, and I have plenty of time.
That is somewhat fair if they are a decent player?
We all can learn from our mistakes, but some blame can/could be warranted.
May not be the only reason, but can be a contributing reason why a team failed and lost.
As we all know this game has 1 million variables into why someone feels they should blame X other than improving themselves.
For example: I told a pre-pick butch to pick butch last so the other team doesn’t pick a heavy CC team to counter him. Nope he locked in butch first and the fact that my tier high gold/low plat doesn’t ban butch nor picks butch, I couldn’t comprehend why would he expose himself like that. The other team then picked Jo and Uther right off the bat…
You guessed it, they picked a heavy counter butch cc team and it was always a 4vs5 fight… we lost.
Well it is a TEAM game, yes. Therefore your point of failure as an individual was thinking that you should solo queue in the first place. If you goal is to play to the best of your ability and compete against others at the top of their game, you shouldn’t be solo queuing. You should be finding yourself 4 other players to team up with and compete with. And you should be looking specifically to challenge yourself by finding opponents that are superior to you, so that you can push yourself to learn and overcome that challenge.
It’s funny. I still remember one of my earliest memories on the forums of you that really made me question your reputation. You were so insistent on how grouping was destroying the game, and you did a huge HOTSLOGS data pull to try to prove why solo players were at a disadvantage to groups because of the MMR disadvantages, you made your grand conclusions which a lot of people ate up with all the numbers without reading them, but when you looked at the data, it actually supported the opposite conclusion and saw that the solo players had an ever slight team MMR advantage (which we all now know to be true), and when I pointed it out, you brushed it off.
Well even if they aren’t statistically favored, you can imagine how fun it must be to play against a premade in a team of randoms. Wonder why so many players hate the game.
It doesn’t need to look awful, the smell of it is enough. If it happens frequently, you stop playing because it isn’t fun and it doesn’t feel fair.
But if you’re pretty much winning at the same, isn’t it fair? If you’re personally imposing a sense of unfairness to yourself, I’d maybe try to have a less pessimistic attitude.
Really depends on the premade. I think we’ve all won against premades as solo queues and they are so satisfying. I wouldn’t want to take those wins away especially because for the vast majority of groups, you can get relatively fair games.
The groups who consistently play together and have shown success that overperforms for their averaged MMR, should probably have additional MMR handicaps. Having team MMR would be great for those purposes.
But even with that, trying to balance teams against good premades will have diminishing returns because you can only pull from so many high MMR players.
Regardless, I’m glad that people can’t pretrigger themselves anymore for games that are for most intents and purposes, probably going to yield a game that is just fine.
It doesn’t seem that you’re taking into account the probability a solo queuer will end up in one of these games. For example you don’t have an equal probability of being in a 4 v 2 stacked game or an all solo game. So this calculation isn’t measuring what you’re claiming it is.
As I pointed out in my thread, there are more solo slots in disadvantaged lobbies. I.E. a 5 v 2 stack only has slots on the 2-stack side, so you need to take this into account (5v2 had something like a 45% winrate for the solo queuers).
Basically:
What you’re measuring: P(win|your team has a solo queuer)
The pessimistic attitude comes from personal experience. There is always one idiot on the team who can’t tell from the level of enemy team coordination that they most likely playing together, and for some reason Blizzard thinks it is best practice not to inform him before the match starts.
Do you think that person will stay silent like everyone else or press TAB and start complaining about the first thing he notices? Rarely does this non result with insults starting to fly left and right.
Yea thats the main issue with data analysis. Very few people understand how to do it and thats why i am always skeptical about the other threads. Thanks for providing this!
Well, the problem here is this is measuring P(win|your team has at least one solo queuer), what we’re after is P(win|you are a solo queuer). That’s what I’m at least attempting in my thread.
On the topic of being pretriggered or demoralized by seeing a premade; it doesn’t necessarily fix the deeper issues within the matchmaker if you hide the information. Information means a lot and this amount is just adequate enough to offset the advantage of group play. The only thing that I disagree on is letting the other team know WHICH SPECIFIC PLAYERS are playing together because that is one thing that heavily affects your decision making and might change the outcome depending on the combination of roles that are playing together.
I think you’re probably exaggerating your losses and discounting the times you’ve probably been just fine playing against groups.
If you’re playing with somebody who blames the matchmaker versus blames their team, that seems to be someone who just is kind of blamey regardless the situation.
I’d rather they at least play and then complain when things go bad before triggering themselves before the start. I also don’t know why playing against groups changes the dynamics of the matchup all that much. Your fundamentals of how you win the game are still the same.