The snowball effect

General Discussion
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Hello, I wanted to make a post to talk about the snowball effect in HOTS.
The snowball effect comes from certain advantages that the winning team has over the losing one; helping the winning team to win even more while the losing team tries to comeback .

For me, there’s 5 things in HOTS that gives you an advantage over the opposing team :

1 - The statistical advantage : For each level, your entire team aswell as your minions (for some reasons) gain +4% maximum health and damage ; giving your team a slight teamfight advantage ; while small, it can make a difference.

2 - The talent advantage : I’d say it’s the most healthy advantage in the game because it can be played around very effectively. Every 3 levels, your team can choose a talent allowing them to win teamfights more effectively. The lvl 10 and 20 talents are some of the most powerful, giving the winning team an absolute advantage in term of teamfighting.

3 - The catapult advantage : Once a fort is destroyed, a catapult will spawn every 2 wave of minions and once a keep is destroyed, a catapult will spawn every minion waves ; allowing the winning team to play passively especially in the late game, waiting for their catapults to push the opposing team’s core, forcing the losing team to go back and defend

4 - The mercenaries advantage : In the late game or after winning a teamfight, the winning team can decide to steal the losing team’s merc camps, giving them a push advantage aswell as a map control advantage since the losing team can’t take their merc camps no longer. This advantage is pretty balanced overall but the “boss” camps on some maps can create some snowball effect issues.

5 - The strategic advantage : This is an advantage that isn’t talked about very much. If you destroy an opposing’s team structure, you’ll gain strategic advantage. Because the goal of the game is to destroy the opposing team’s core, each building you destroy brings your team closer and closer to that goal. It may seem ridiculous to bring up that advantage but it is surprinsingly forgettable. If the losing team wins a fight, they’ll have less of an advantage compared to the winning team winning another fight due to that strategic advantage.

Now, the question is : How do you comeback in HOTS ?

The first 2 advantages are the most important one since you can gain them via XP points and they both give your team a teamfight advantage which allows you to claim objectives more effectively.

The main comeback mechanic in HOTS which was greatly upgraded this last year is the soak advantage.
Yes, it’s one of, if not the only advantage that the losing team has over the winning one but it serves its purpose well : the losing team can safely soak close to their base while the winning team can’t soak safely at all, thanks to that catapult which spawn every 2 lane in the midgame after a fort has been destroyed.
By soaking XP, the losing team can claim their talents allowing them to fight the winning team without a disavantage and hopefully comeback with objectives.

If the winning team is a talent tier up, the losing team can decide not to fight, which brings a strategic aspect to the game and this is why I think the talent advantage is the most healthy one in the game.

Now without further a do, I want to get to the point of my topic. Despite the catapult changes (fort spawn) which was overall healthy for the game imo ; I think the snowball effect still is a little bit too present in HOTS due to all of those advantages I listed earlier.
While some of them are balanced in my point of view like the talent advantage, I think toning down some of the other advantage will be a good decision to make the game more fun for everyone especailly the losing team.

We all know these types of game where it may seem impossible to comeback due to all of those advantage the winning team has over the losing one. The losing team feel hopeless most of the time especially in the very late game where you simply can’t walk to the objectives anymore without revealing your position, being dismounted, having your core pressured by mercs and catapults, it’s honestly a very bad experience on my part when I feel like my team just want to give up and move on. Even if you’re lucky enough to win a fight or kill some enemy players, it is still very hard to comeback from a late game position.

Anyways, I still have so much to talk about ; but this topic is getting way too long for what it’s worth. Tell me what do you think about the snowball effect, do you agree with me ? Is the snowball effect still too present in HOTS ? If yes, how will you fix it ?

PS :Ah, and i’m not eng from origin sorry for the grammar etc…

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HotS is kind of weird for Mobas in that it has the least pronounced snowball effect in the genre.

Typically speaking, as long as you can get down one Fort in a viable lane, your team can lose every engagement, win 1 team fight at level 18 and proceed to push and destroy the core.

Some people disagree with this design choice, others agree. Suffice to say that the less you focus on the snowball effect, the less personal performance matters.

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Minions don’t scale with level btw, they scale over time. They scale every 2 waves or 1 minute.

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Oh ok didn’t know that, thanks for the clarification

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There is one other comeback mechanic I believe. If you get a kill when your team is a lower level, it’s worth more XP than usual.

I personally don’t like the catapults or the passive XP from destroying buildings. I would prefer no reward for destroying a structure. As you said, the reward is that you are closer to the enemy core, enabling you to end the game after getting kills.

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By soaking exp. So staying on defense, and clearing out your base will yield you exp and catch you up.

All of the issues that you’ve listed could be circumvented with soaking and defending your lanes. That’s why wave clear is so important and why drafts often seek to add wave clear to their composition.

The problem arises when people don’t get that part of the program and toss themselves into team fights constantly, despite the disadvantage. Maybe you lost a team fight and are now a lvl behind and then your team decides to try again and are now 2 lvls behind. Meanwhile, their absence from the battlefield due to waiting for respawn means you lose map control.

If the enemy team’s comp and/or skill allows them to team fight better than your team, then macro game is the solution which involves soaking and safely pushing out lanes. You want to create a lvl advantage to offset your deficiencies, that way, you can contest objectives without getting murdered.

Right now, snowball games are caused by fatal flaws in a specific team which causes them to exacerbate the effect over time because they don’t adjust their game play and engage lvls below as if they were on equal footing.

I think the current situation is fine. The winning team should get a lead because they earned it. They worked for their advantage and I don’t think forcing changes would solve the issue.

The problem is on the player.

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Zeratul’s one of those characters who can help revert the “snowball effect”…

Also, comebacks are totally a real thing. If you think it’s myth, you’re playing the game wrong. If you watch your own replays, you’ll see that the amount of exp gained by hero pickings from the lower lvl team is much more substantial than the higher lvl team.

On top of that Catapults are actually meant to have their minions to your side, making it much easier to farm back a good portion of the exp lost from being behind.

If you’re really that bothered by snowball effects, try to tailor yourself to heroes that peak at later levels. Those Heroes make snowball effects go back to normal if you know how to play them right.

Then ofcourse, there are your teammates. So if you know you did your best, just give yourself a good pat on your back. Don’t be so hard on yourself and the bad players, your rounds of good players will come along.

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Heroes of the snowball. :laughing:

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This is flat out wrong, because the team that is behind gets more XP from winning a teamfight. This why you often see big reversals in organized play (like old HGC), because all it takes to equal (or sometimes surpass!) the winning team is a won teamfight.

This is especially true if the teamfight is won during a map objective, since those scale with time instead of with level. An example of this is Battlefield of Eternity–sometimes, the first objective isn’t at all meaningful and doesn’t even clear a fort, while the NEXT objective often pushes to the keep in the opposite lane! During late-game, a captured map objective can win the match by itself!

HotS is unique with how comebacks work; the only times the game snowballs is if your teammates give up–an unfortunate occurance in quick match and unranked (especially unranked, where people believe you lose at draft).

Someone beat me to it :joy:

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I honestly think the only snowballing that really happens and needs to be changed is the player’s mentality. Too many people give up at the first lost teamfight, even though the game isn’t lost until you see defeat.

I’ve won so many games I “should have” lost. And lost so many games I “should have” won.

Also the flip side of this, is that if you make it so there is no snowballing, the early game doesn’t matter at all. And that’s not a good thing either.

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Blackheart’s Bay is too snowbally and aram-feeling, please remove it from all draft pools.
1-2 turn ins in a row = very unlikely comeback.

Other map objectives are fine though.

PeskyBerry:
Also the flip side of this, is that if you make it so there is no snowballing, the early game doesn’t matter at all. And that’s not a good thing either.

I agree, I would hate HotS to be reduced to “who wins 1 late teamfight wins the game”. Early correct plays should be rewarded heavily as well, with a high level advantage and other perks.