The problem with Block-Talents and Multi-Hit Basic Attacks

General Discussion
21

Even more hurtful is they removed it from Malfurion - whose lore and universe it fits much better - and let it remain on a Diablo 3 witch hunter.

Still waiting for Malf to get some damage mitigation besides the tiny armor from Transcendence, now some people even Pyro him the moment he drops under 70% hp because they know he can’t do a thing about it. Cheap.

Even a talent that gave 10-20% armor with a Q cast would help a lot. It would have to be mid to late game only, though and probably a maximum of 1 target.

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“If you don’t like it, just quit playing the game!”

     - Basically everyone in this forum
1 Like
23

Disagree heavily, I think AA heroes are one of the most easiest heroes to play and get value out, Micro is not difficult as hitting a skillshot with a mage, I feel like Block should be more consistent especially in a meta that literally involves around some of the easiest AA heroes to play to date.

2 Likes
24

Meanwhile yrel has an almost 50 permanent block talent at 1 which any player worth his salt knows is ultra OP and an instant pick but hey let’s force it to everyone who has block.

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Block over duration should be normalized to normalize the long constant meta of Auto Attackers.

2 Likes
26

This is not a bad idea but wouldn’t that confuse people if it changes every season or something?

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As if the anomaylies haven’t confused them any much more than that.

Nah, probably not, people seems pretty cool with them if anything.

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It sounds like two different talents. Charges effective against slow guys and a decrease over a duration for fast guys.

One problem is that AAs have no cooldown so blowing block means you might still very well be in the fight. That could be part of a consideration. The block talents do need to be looked at through and through though, I can agree with that.

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I also disagree with Blizzard, and I agree with you that Block should be more consistent. I was simply reiterating what Blizzard had said about Block (forever ago at this point). I do see their point in the whole thing, simply because there are more counters to AA builds than any other ability. If they make Block more consistent and Blizzard’s fears are true, what counter do you nerf to keep AAs in meta?

4 Likes
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Don’t misunderstand what I’ve said and what I’ve written.

For sure, Block should be changed, only because and for the same reasons they did that to Dampen Magic.
The mechanic of Yrel is how it should be on every Block Talent but I’ve never said it should be the same amount. To be honest, I imagine Block like that.

Artanis:
Reactive Parry (W)
New functionality: Twin Blades grants 40 Physical Armor for 1.25 seconds, increased to 1.75 seconds if Shield Overload is active.

Arthas:
Rime (Passive)
New functionality: Rime (E)
Frozen Tempest grants 20 Physical Armor, plus 5 per Heroes affected, up to 25, for 1.5 seconds.

ETC:
Block Party (Trait)
New functionality: Using a Basic or Heroic Ability also grants nearby allied Heroes 40 Physical Armor for 1 second.

Greymane:
Thick Skin (E)
Darkflight grants 40 Physical Armor for 1.5 seconds.

Illidan:
Reflexive Block:
Dive grants 30 Physical Armor for 1.25 seconds. This duration is paused during Evasion.

Jaina:
Frost Armor:
Every 12 seconds, Jaina gains 25 Physical Armor for 2 seconds. Additionally, enemies that attack Jaina are Chilled.

Mal’Ganis
Winged Guard (W)
Every 12 seconds, Mal’Ganis gains 40 Physical Armor for 1.5 seconds.
Each time Necrotic Embrace hits an enemy Hero, reduces this cooldown by 6 seconds.

Muradin:
Dwarf Block (E):
Every 12 seconds, Muradin gains 40 Physical Armor for 1.5 seconds.
Hitting an enemy Hero with Dwarf Toss automatically activates this effect without affecting the cooldown.

Qhira:
Upstage (W):
Damaging at least 2 Heroes with Blood Rage causes Qhira to Evade every Physical Damage for 1.5 seconds.

Rexxar:
Grizzled Fortitude:
Every 8 seconds, Rexxar and Misha gain 50 Physical Armor for 1.5 seconds.

Sonya:
Tough as Nails (Passive)
Every 24 seconds, gain 50 Physical Armor for 2 seconds. Tough as Nails recharges 200% faster while Fury’s Movement Speed bonus is active.

The Butcher
Block: Removed.

  • New talent: Protecting Brand (W)
    • Dealing damage to Heroes affected by Butcher’s Brand grants 40 Physical Armor for 1.5 seconds.

Thrall:
Feral Resilience (W)
Heroes damaged by Feral Spirit grants 50 Physical Armor for 1 second, increased by 0.5 seconds per additional Heroes hit, and grants 3 stacks of Frostwolf Resilience.

TLV (Olaf):
Olaf the Stout (Q)
Every 4 seconds, Olaf gains 75 Physical Armor for 1 second.

Valeera:
Combat Readiness:
Each Combo Point gained grants 30 Physical Armor for 0.5 seconds, up to 1.5 seconds.
Each Combo Point spent causes Valeera to Evade Physical Damage for 0.5 seconds.

Zarya:
Defensive shielding:
Upon expiration or breaking, Personal Barrier and Shield Ally grants 40 Physical Armor for 1.5 seconds.

I think Il’l soon create a new post called something like “Changes that should happen in the next Balance Patch” and copy/paste this, and add some stuffs…

1 Like
31

Block used to be very powerful and in the cases of both Jo and Yrel it’s a powerful tool against the right comps. Yrel especially, most dedicated Yrel players I know pick Dauntless the vast majority of their games. If Yrel herself were stronger you’d see people complaining about her version of block, the only reason people don’t cry about it on Jo is because she’s already phenomenally tanky and has a baseline blind so it’s helpfulness can go unnoticed at times.
Also I’d say ETC somewhat goes into this category, he might only give two charges but applying them across the whole team is very nice and it makes me groan to see Block Party whenever I’m playing an aa hero.

As it is now I think it’s a good counter against certain heroes but their teammates being able to burn through block charges first provides innate counterplay so the talent itself doesn’t make a hero useless.
I agree that it’s useless against fast AAers but I don’t think timed blocks are the answer. All those proposed changes are either too strong or too weak, you’re really underestimating what 2 seconds of flat physical armor can do for a tank, or how fast someone can blow you up in the 8 seconds you don’t have block are.
The initiating ones are alright but I don’t like the ones that can nearly guarantee full uptime on block or at least have it up 1/4th of the time during a fight.

Also Qhira’s upstage is fine as it is, or you should increase the grace period on the evade. I’d much prefer the chance of dodging multiple attacks from one scary hero than being able to dodge 1 attack from the rest of their team in that time frame.

32

It doesn’t have to be 1.5 seconds. It could be less

1 Like
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Or they could make sure every tank have a good block talent to counter big AAs and a good sustain talent to ward off fast AAs and have people choose the correct talent instead of trying to make one middle ground option that is mediocre in both situations or one busted in both like yrel’s.

1 Like
34

Then what are you proposing ?

Something like that ?
Block grants permanently 10 Physical Armor, increased to 40 once every 12 seconds for 1.5 seconds. This functionality can be toggle.

The problem is that, if you want to create a version of Block that is able to counter both strong but slow AA and fast AA Speed, you won’t give any answer to Auto-Attackers.

I think it’s better to keep a talent like I’ve proposed, that lasts for a short-medium period and blocks 40% damage dealt.

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And yet, why would you ever take Reactive Parry for the armour talent when you can go Amateur Opponent. The armour talent wouldn’t necessarily aid you in soloing boss camps if it takes twice as long to complete and therefore create twice as much opportunity to counter attack and steal by an opponent. By the time you can solo boss camps the block talents are inept even in team fights.

Every map has camps, and the only one in which the camps are kind of blah are Volskaya Foundry. AO can create far more pressure than any armour talent could ever compete against. Tracer and Valla might have a direct counter that isn’t Genji’s block. But then, their mobility, arguably, saves them from front-line heroes with block talents anyway, so really: that’s just an even trade.

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On a more direct note, how often do people use these talents at all? Every front line hero has better first level options against 90% of compositions. I would argue 100% of compositions, but sometimes I don’t have a healer (or trust the player to heal).

The only exception to this is Muradin, because his armour talent is stuffed into Dwarf Toss and with a Haymaker build it’s simply a mild bonus to an already decent strategy.

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Because with almost permanent talent and shield I would be almost unkillable?

Why are you thinking that you should solo bosses as artanis? Thats not a solo job, nor it is a good idea.

You take artanis as a solo lane hero. Having block for 1.5 every 4 seconds wirh your shields make you inkillable and you will drive off any enemy out of the lane.
Which is your job BTW.

Sorry to say it but your comment sounds like a QM or a silver strategy.

38

To be fair, I don’t play ranked. And yet, it’s amazing how much you can mess up the other team when 4 push a lane or grab an obj while you drop a boss on the other side of the map. The number of times I’ve managed to grab a boss on Warhead, grabbed/dropped a nuke, then swap places with my team and grab the second boss…maybe it’s just a QM thing, I imagine draft play assumes the other team to be more capable (?). Also, when the other 4 team members are visible doing stuff, the other team is far less likely to worry about someone taking the boss solo, so they never check. I often get both.