The li li saga III Stukov does it better

General Discussion
1

Part 3 of the successful series why li li is a bad hero

  1. Someone is out of position? What will you do Li li?

Li li will blind them and slow them 15% :superhero:
:exploding_head: :exploding_head: :exploding_head:

Stukov: Let me put an enourmes 70% slow under them while also silencing them.
Ps it roots at 13

Li li: Hey thats unfair I also have a slow, its my ultimate, it hits after 1 day , has a big neon sign over it and it can hit every 45s

Stukov: Okay that sounds decent, how much do you slow

Li li: 70%

Stukov…

But horsin li lis last for 4s. Well timmy it also has a 45s cooldown. While Stukov can hit more

  1. Stukov does better waveclear, single damage and vs a big wave

  2. An enemy butcher charges into your Valla
    Li li " let me blind him for 1.5s"
    Stukov: let me push him away completely or smack him around.

But horsin thats why you need cleanse.
So your saying swipe doesnt do the same effect but better?

  1. The team needs healing
    Li li my ult is on cdr and I dont have 16 yet. I need to heal the stupid dps first before I can heal you diablo.

Stukov: you need an AoE heal? The motherland/swarm provides

    • He has better teamfights
  • His autoattacks are better. Especially when you pick the ranged talent that slows
  • A well placed silence is winning games, especially when you invade a camp.
  • You can interupt an enemy
  • His W slow build up to 50%
6 Likes
2

I feel like the LiLi stukov is a bit to much of a stretch for me. Stukov is very much a utility orientated healer while LiLi has very little utility.

LiLi is alot more throughput orientated (or shes supposed to be). She want’s to push big numbers during fights while stukov wants to CC everyone. Yeah stukov has a nice burst heal every now and then but its slow and infrequent. LiLis biggest issue is that she just cant put her heals where they need to go.

7 Likes
3

Well I can agree Stu’s auto attacks are lit. If you are a careless mage do not disrespect that mans AA.
As far as early game goes I’ve won the 1v1 in lane many a times as Lili. You don’t need to wave clear if you’re beating the enemy lanner up forcing them to back off. Early game it’s about getting the xp soak, you don’t have to clear fast and push.
I’m starting to think you don’t even play Lili or you’ve been going against/ playing with really bad ones.
Unless we are talking about late game and really no healer should be in lane clearing in the late game. Your team is doing something very wrong if they need the healer wave clearing.

2 Likes
4

So the OP gives up and tries to bash Li Li with a different hero. Can I report for spam now? This is getting worse, and it’s clear they have no idea what Li Li is all about.

2 Likes
5

Very little? She has:

  • Blind
  • Slow
  • Heavy slow (dragon ult)
  • Good Cleanse

While being very mobile with her trait. How has she very little utility? On the other hand what does Stukov has?

Silence, roots (if talented), knockback and his hard-hitting autoattacks as melee or slow as ranged. But he’s rather immobile while Lili is quite mobile. The only difference, where Stukov has a big plus for me (aside from his silence) is his powerful trait with Q. The burst healing part is just incredible. On top of that he has also cc.

But again Stukov is also much harder to play than Lili and very immobile.

6

Its not like shes got no utility its more that the utility she does have is not very good.
Her slow is only 15% and only goes up to 30% at 13 with a very short duration for a slow.
Same with her blind, theres really not much special about it compared to other blinds. Blinds are also among the weakest forms of CC. The number of heroes that blind is good against is fairly low and blinds have pretty limited offensive power compared to almost any other CC.

Her cleanse is admittedly pretty good but you give up a talent that boosts the healing of Q by almost 50% at level 7 for it.
Water Dragon is also not bad and its nice to have a way to start fights as a healer.
Shes also got a +10% heal buff and % healing which can be good depending on who you put it on.

Unfortunately, thats kind of where the significant stuff ends. Even including talents.

Im not a huge fan of the stukov comparison as i feel its very apple and oranges but ill bite.

In stukovs base kit alone, he provides;

One of the best slows in the game on a basic ability
A silence
Area denial
The second best disengage in the game with flailing swpie
Or a long knockback that can on occasion, just oneshot somebody

If we include his talents, he also has
A slow that is as powerful as LiLis but stukov can keep a 100% up time on it
2 different ways to make his super slow aoe
10 physical armor that can last forever at 16 and can be popped for a temporary 50 physical armor
A decent root
And another silence at 20

This is why i dont like this comparision. Stukov very much out classes LiLi in utility because that’s what stukov was ment to be. A utility god.

I think we should be comparing LiLi to the likes of Alexstraza, whitemane, Auriel, orthe other healers who are all about tradeing utility for massive throughput.
The reason why i think these are better comparisons is first, its just an easier comparison with all their similarities and second, if the dev team were to turn LiLi in to a utility healer (which for the record, im totaly ok with) they would need to create alot more assets amd rework alot more to do so then it would be for them to just buff her numbers and maybe tweak her target priorities.

Edit:
The other thing im seeing alot is that its ok for LiLi to fall off because shes easy or shes the noob healer. If this is the case tho, shouldn’t we be saying the same for raynor, morales, and muradan? All of which are very much introductory heros. Mura and raynor are both very playable and raynor even has a useful nuche as the guy who buffs camps on big maps or as an immortal racer.
I think its totaly acceptable for LiLi to get her chance to shine somehow. Not just so we can get another healer but as a service for the players who pour so much time in to her.

5 Likes
7

There’s a reason why pandas are endangered/vulnerable; as an animal it’s like they want to suck at everything they do…I mean who chooses bamboo as their diet? There’s next to no nutrients in that crap…only animal more screwed is the Koala but at least they’re exceptionally stupid so they have a reason for eating poison for breakfast, dinner and lunch. And their mating ritual? Yeah, let’s just say that Pandas have a hard time with that because of their…excessively tiny appendage.

Li li is just an extension of pandas being completely useless and destined to die out without intervention from humans.

1 Like
8

Is it because of his ults?

You know, because his arm stretches?

It’s one in the morning cut me a break, I don’t operate well on a half tank.

2 Likes
9

Every pun i make in intentional : p

10

Who is next hero you will compare Li Li with?

Tyrande?

11

I was writting blaze instead of a double heal comp go with more CC :triumph:

1 Like
12

Well Tyrande does have shrink and a stun, soooo…

1 Like
13

Keep going writting notes :duck:

1 Like
14

Tyrande more cc and Heals
LiLi less cc and Heals

It’s a lose/lose

3 Likes
15

How about varians glory of the aliance that brings +50% heal. You think its worth a thread comparing that to li li

1 Like
16

Other healers get more value from bonus heal than Li Li.

17

The li li stukov conversation about waterdragon vs W+ D was a fun read

Cant wait for episode 4

1 Like
18

Great post as always Horsin, but Li Li will always be a Panda, that’s something Stukov will never have. Panda, panda, panda!

Panda skin for Stukov when?

1 Like
19

Not before batwing skin have been added.

1 Like
20

I know thats why I am so upset with her current state.

I was doing sl 3 weeks ago and some random reported our li li for picking her.
I find her borring and very useless but I want to play her. Just not in her current borring state

Like nova both useless and onesided but interesting characters

2 Likes