The gospel of the devs must stop, we want debates

General Discussion
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it’s 2021 and we have come a long way since the obscurantism.

I want to ask you why you felt the need to rework Whitemane, i want to ask you why you needed around one year to fix rexxar’s and cassia’s game-breaking bugs.

Am i an inconvenientent and rather disgusting bed bug, me and all other serious critics?
Does your silence imply ineptitude or cowardice?

I just want to know–i dont mind being insulted, just answer.

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Whitemane pre rework stats

They couldn’t buff the other talents (lvl 1 and lvl 4) to boost their popularity, else they would have to power creep them.

On the other hand, Medivh is having the same issue, yet they haven’t touched him for 2 years.

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It just surprises me how many of you don’t get the picture.

The devs don’t care. Get it? That answers your questions right there.

I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.

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Despite the stans, Whitemane was the lowest-performing healer in the game prior to her rework. Now she isn’t. I can’t argue on anything but numbers, but it’s clear why they did it.

As for the bugs, give the five people who still work on this game a break. I’m sure they have a lot on their plate to deal with.

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  1. directly calling out blues rarely, if ever, gets an answer around here. Esp since such things are frowned upon on the terms for using the boards. The assertion tends to claim ‘cowardice’ but it’s also tossed out by people that don’t pay attention, haven’t done a job of making things, nor do they actually care about the processes at hand.
  2. ‘debates’ handle diddly-squat as the people claiming to want them neither know about debates, or know enough about the thing they’re trying to debate. Instead they just want to ignore things that don’t agree with them, and find validation for their opinion. That goes wonderfully with the above where it essentially turns out people don’t really want ‘answers’ to something, they’re just phrased poorly made questions as a form of veiled criticism, and thinking themselves good for having done so.
  3. Whitemane’s mana tension is an intended hurdle of her playstyle. She was reworked because she had a highly stagnant talent build that looked to curtail the flaw in favor of a mindless rotation. While some may wonder why it wasn’t just ‘toned down’, a lot of variations had already been put into whitemane (dev comment said iirc that the rework was the 7th iteration of her) and since they put in more time playtesting stuff, they’re more likely to find something that they ‘like’ about it than people who’s impulsive response is to decry any and everything they can as they’d rather value their ignorance than not.
  4. asserting yourself to be a ‘serious critic’ is pretty much along the lines a ‘no true scotsman’ claim where you’re pretty much confirming the use of a self-label to bolster your personal projection without putting much by way of value to ‘truly’ indicate much value to the ‘criticism’.
  5. when I looked into rexxar ‘game-breaking bugs’ I got information on misha not dancing. Since I don’t know much about rexxar, or given how many problems he (and misha) have had, I’m not sure others would bother to know offhand which issue you’re to which you are referring, or rather, if anyone to were to answer, if it would actually match the one you have in mind.

Otherwise, any number of games can have long-standing ‘game breaking bugs’ in them for years on end. Old classic blizz games have a number of known bugs that didn’t get fixed back then, and it’ll be wonderful to see if those were recreated for remakes to come.

Debugging is hard, and it doesn’t generally make ‘new content’ (the thing people want), so the people that end up doing it can often be an afterthought to the rest of the process for a game. Sometimes related issues are found, and sometimes the bug gets reintroduced – kerrigan had this happened a number of times – and part of the issue is that, when the team was larger, they’d all be working on various iterations/versions of the game, which can make it harder to find what change may have made the bug, or caused it to be reintroduced. Other times. engine and coding limitations create unintended consequences that need to be worked around (ie, quira’s grapple on a jumping chen)

Some bugs are findlng an overwise invlslbie typo, and extra character. or any number of “we don’t know what we’re looking for” cuz debugging is hard, and there’s no magical indicator to tell what a person may need to find, let alone do, to fix the bugs.

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Or just reading and watching what the devs said over the years.

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The last two patches have directly incorporated ideas proposed from users on these forums and Reddit. The Devs can only care as much a their time and budget allows and some changes requested by users I’m eternally grateful they do ignore. If they hadn’t, we would have a KT who needed to use his Living Bomb as a skill shot and Pyro Blast would have been completely removed, as just one example.

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This began long before that, but yes.

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Think you insulted the dev’s more. I don’t want to discuss with you either

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Im surprised you dont feel insulted yourself by them ignoring you absolutely.

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Ive came to accept it

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Which bugs? Can’t remember any game breaking bugs on them, unless that was while i was on my break from the game to play WoW.

I would be surprised if you get alot of answers when you call out devs in different games.
The forums are mainly here for us to discuss amongts ourselfs.
They didn’t make the forums as a Q&A towards the developers.

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Cassia had a bug that made it so that if you pressed W, Q, E in a very quick succession your E would enter a CD without actually being casted. This is why i stopped playing cassia, literally unplayable.

Rexxar had a bug that made it so that sometimes you would press your W, nothing would happen and it would enter a CD, this is also why i stopped playing Rexxar.

Cassia was reworked and lost her bug with the rework.

Edit: removed false information.

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Ah so this was along time ago then, isn’t the Cassia rework like over a year old?

  • Rexxar
    • Casting Misha, Charge! and Misha Focus! at the same time will no longer occasionally cancel the ability.

I assume this was the bug.
I can’t see any nerfs for him in that Patch though.

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Oh yes, it wasnt on the same patch, sorry.

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Pretty much this. Try and remember back when this game had 100 of devs behind it. All those hero trailers we had and moving main menu screen with newest hero and easter egg in it. And ofc we had Kevin to speak in hero trailers. Balance patches also came after 2 weeks and new hero each months.

But all that has been slowly been cut down so yea we should be gratefull for what we got untill thry decide to push more money into the game.

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There’s a lot of nitpicking and bias, if developers would implement every single idea they read the game would be in a huge mess, they like many ideas are selected if they fit the most. yes that means my giga galaxy brain of idea of deleting Sgt. Hammer will never happen :sob:

What people should discuss is how poor quality the patches are when it comes to their quality (bugs, performance), why no one even talk about this? The “disable heroes” feature was implemented just so they can soft up a lot of mess ups that can happen which is normal sure I get, but does it just make anyone question how bizarre some of these bugs are? And they take very little effort to check if something is working as intended.

Instead, we got an overkill unstoppable post 20 for Lucio, a one shot Stukov combo, a ban system that surprisingly doesn’t work with auto select (auto select → favorite heroes auto select → only favorite Stukov, notice the exploit?) and my favorite… They’ve disabled the Raynor talent in ARAM… but its still pickable in ARAM…

The patches in quality are being rushed because of demand and aren’t meeting their intended quality which results in a bigger mess and even negative feedback like mine right now frustrated with bugs like this.

Again don’t get me wrong, a lot of the patches have a really decently respectable balancing ideas that is trying to push tide to make a change in the nexus, but the quality of the patches itself are very poor.

The technology that they are using is highly dynamic that some of these bugs can be immediately figured out but instead, there isn’t any check ups over whether such feature they are implementing is working or not and those patches speaks to themselves.

The devs are crunching and rushing, its not a good sign.

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I completely agree, I said as much above about the KT, he and SGT Hammer would probably have been straight up removed if the Devs had listened to all the trivial forum complaints.

I’m not sure why more people on the forums didn’t respond to your thread addressing the issues that accompanied the last two patches. In fact when I brought this up with a GM player on the forum, they straight up told me the bugs were of little consequence.

The best I can figure is that so many people are just grateful for any content, they will embrace anything, bugs and all. Personally I’d prefer fewer patches so the Devs are given sufficient time make sure no significant bugs make it live. :woman_shrugging: